Understanding step 1 in relation to science

The 12 Steps are the AA program of recovery from alcoholism.
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Re: Understanding step 1 in relation to science

Post by innermost »

cittasanto wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:21 am Any thoughts on how you navigate this are very much appreciated.
Welcome to the forum Cittasanto.
Page xxvi in doctors opinion 2/3 the way down the page states:
The doctors theory that we have an allergy to alcohol interests us. As laymen, our opinion as to it's soundness may of course mean little.
As far the Sinclair method, people can utilize whatever they wish, my hats off to them.

I personally never really was interested in the science of allergy or disease much.I always sought out the solutions.AA's simple program has worked for this alky and given me a Life beyond my wildest dreams since 1985.So I never needed a work around like a Sinclair method.I've witnessed many look for work a around, and many of them have worked around to another drink.

So my navigation is that it means little to this alky, just like the BB states above. I don't complicate step 1 with any science, I only concern myself with my personal powerlessness and unmanageability and my admittance to them.

EDIT: Keeping it simple:
1) Craving with lack of power and control over drink after a certain amount of alcohol is consumed??? CHECK
Solution: Don't drink

2) Peculiar mental twist that leads me to drink again??? CHECK
Solution: simple 12 step program.

Naming it or categorizing and labeling the science does not matter to this alky.
Do I have a desire to quit once and for good??? AA says they have a solution.TRUE in my case.

Last edited by innermost on Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The first 164 pg. is the program!
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Re: Understanding step 1 in relation to science

Post by avaneesh912 »

it is perfectly fine to call alcoholism a disease but there is a difference between using allergy as an analogy to explain things, and something completely different saying alcoholism is an allergy.
Dr. Silkworth was the one who put more weight on the allergy part. The phenomenon of Craving that happened after the alcoholic put one or two drinks in the body. In 1 or 2 places he talks about how important it is to consider the phsyical nature of the situation. The fellowship loves to discuss the craving part because its one part of the disease that we all can relate.

However: The recovery section of the book chapters "There is a solution", "More about alcoholism" always focuses on the Mental part of the disease. You will see those short stories in the chapter More about alcoholism are mainly there to illustrate the "peculiar mental twist" that tricks the alcoholic into taking that first drink.

Also remember Roland Hazard (The guy who worked with Dr. Jung) and Ebby didn't know anything about the physical craving part, they just knew "spiritual experience" is what we need to get sober. Its the collective idea of the alcoholics who realized the mind being the main problem of the alcoholic so they talk about the mental state of the alcoholic that precedes the first drink all thru the recovery section of the book.
Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism.(Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Understanding step 1 in relation to science

Post by D'oh »

I tend to Analyze the Stuffing out of everything, while Utilizing nothing.

Point being, it works. If we work it. KISS.
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Re: Understanding step 1 in relation to science

Post by cittasanto »

PaigeB wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 11:00 am I like disease because it can also mean dis ease or ill at ease. :shock: 8)

Playing with words is one of my favorite things to do. I recently redefined my SHAME as
Extremely self-Conscious, or Extreme Contentiousness, or even Extreme Conscience...

The three "C" words have different meanings and I haven't further defined them for myself personally (that takes experience), but I feel better knowing that it is not necessarily negative shame and un-fixable (I don't want to be "shameless"). I have found a balance in taking the deepness of shame and redefining it as something closer to the truth. Betsy recently used a word.... Cringy that I use now too!
(edited by moderator to remove link to outside site)

I am similar. words have a backstory (to me) and their original meaning, and development into how we use them today can help develop a word further in our understanding.
take the word psychopath it literally means psych(ic) = mind, path(os) = suffering, which is useful to know when reading the doctor's opinion.

Kind regards
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Re: Understanding step 1 in relation to science

Post by retired baker »

cittasanto wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:21 am Hi All
I use the Hyannis rotation for step study
I like and appreciate "The doctor's opinion" but do recognise the allergy theory is not recognised by medical science.
and do not see anywhere in the letters where the "physical allergy" comes from. At best I see the opinion pointing to a psychic allergy (to borrow the doctor's words). Otherwise, why aren't immunologists the ones treating addiction, and programs like the Sinclair method utilised?
Also, the disease model has little backing from research and was even distanced away from by one of the developers.
Any thoughts on how you navigate this are very much appreciated.

Kind regards
Medical science doesn't even know what alcoholism is, all the studies I look at are comical at best, tragic at worst.
The sinclair method is probably best suited for problem drinkers, it cannot remove the obsession, doesn't come with a list of promises etc.
why aren't immunologists the ones treating addiction ? because there is no God Pill.

Subjective mind isn't studied by neurologists either, they haven't the foggiest idea about mind. I know because they say so themselves.
They limit themselves to brain, but brain is just correlates for what is going on in the mind. The self deceiving mind malforms the brain.

Mind, where my illness centers, is the single most intractable area of science.
If mind were simple enough to comprehend, we would lack the brain power to understand the explanation, so its a non starter.
Mathematicians refer to certain problems in math as being undecidable, they also accept there are some aspects of math that are unknowable.
See Godels incompleteness theorem.

The spiritual program doesn't work like magic, I feel its a bona fide miracle because magic is merely a deception.
Silkworth gave it his best shot, I don't find any need to define it any better than he did, we still don't know squat and I'm happy with that, I don't need to wrap my mind around it or the infinite...that would be me trying to control God again.
Its a mystery of the deepest order, meant to be experienced, not a puzzle to be solved.

Ain't life great !
Last edited by retired baker on Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Understanding step 1 in relation to science

Post by PaigeB »

retired baker wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 9:15 am ... we still don't know squat...
This is a perfect, scientific description. Science is one area where not knowing is just part of the journey. =ugeek
Cling to the thought that, in God's hands, the dark past is the greatest possession you have - the key to life and happiness for others. With it you can avert death and misery for them. page 124 BB
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Re: Understanding step 1 in relation to science

Post by retired baker »

PaigeB wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 10:00 am Science is one area where not knowing is just part of the journey. =ugeek
the new crisis du jour in science is what was revealed by the latest telescope, the JWT, they found massive galaxies where there isn't supposed to be any, their whole working model of the universe just went out the window.
They stared into the abyss and the abyss stared back into them.

The more I learn the cutting edge of science, the more I am led back to the big book.
The reason is , it makes sense and its simple.
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