My sponsor fired me last night

[avaneesh912]

Figure out the short-comings/character defects via the 4th step and start addressing those and also start making amends and work the 10th (watching for the short-comings to keep coming back). You will find the power to overcome this spiritual malady.

I wont to add that doing a 5th with your sponsor is very critical. there is lot written for this step in the big book.

=========================================================================================================================================================
We think we have done well enough in admitting these things to ourselves. There is doubt about that. In actual practice, we usually find a solitary self-appraisal insufficient. Many of us thought it necessary to go much further. We will be more reconciled to discussing ourselves with another person when we see good reasons why we should do so. The best reason first: If we skip this vital step, we may not overcome drinking. Time after time newcomers have tried to keep to themselves certain facts about their lives. Trying to avoid this humbling experience, they have turned to easier methods.
=========================================================================================================================================================

Perhaps this is the main reason you are slipping. Scoot up some courage and go through this humbling experience and you will find the power the book talks about.

[avaneesh912]

No one has been ever been able to answer this question to my satisfaction, so I'll ask it here: do we drink because we have shortcomings/defects, or because we have an illness and are powerless? If I'm powerless, what do my shortcomings have to do with it?

If we don't work at it, we are separated from the power because of all these character defects. Because of this disassociation we at times not able to differentiate true from false. The obsession thinking takes over and overrides the knowledge that we have a problem with consuming alcohol (the phenomenon of craving) and we end up drinking. Then the craving kicks in and we drink more than what we originally thought we could handle.

That is why this 'if you don't drink the first drink you wont get drunk' is a dangerous slogan that gets propagated in meetings. The book says we don't have a defense against the 1st drink. The defense should come from this Power the book talks about.

[leejosepho]

No one has been ever been able to answer this question to my satisfaction, so I'll ask it here: do we drink because we have shortcomings/defects, or because we have an illness and are powerless? If I'm powerless, what do my shortcomings have to do with it?

If we don't work at it, we are separated from the power because of all these character defects.

Exactly: "... [the Steps amount to] a strenuous effort to face, and to be rid of, the things in ourselves which had been blocking us. Our liquor was but a symptom. So we had to get down to causes and conditions." (page 64)

Hence, "The first requirement [at Step Three] is that we be convinced that any life run on self-will can hardly be a success" (page 60) ... and then we can find the "power by which we could live" (page 45) and that can manage our lives successfully had actually been available all along.

Can that be done without A.A.? Sure, but not without God and His spiritual principles.

I am a Deist,who doesn't believe God works in our lives at all. Is AA for me?

Sure, if you are willing to learn to live by God's spiritual principles even why you might believe He is "away" or whatever.

[Layne]

I see no conflict between Deist beliefs and working the steps of AA. This was not always the case, but when I stopped looking for a way out and instead looked for a way in, I found it.

[johnd]

Hey BigD
Glad to see you are still with us. I'm not sure if the shortcomings were the initial cause for my drinking, but I do know
that everytime I would take a drink the physical compulsion and mental obsession would be activated.That was what hooked me
into understanding this malady of alcoholism. Once I heard and read about this desesase I became willing to do something about it.
From my own experience I found that the steps had shown me how to think a drink through and relieved me of my self-centered
fears.As I kept getting aquainted with the steps progress was made to allow me not to be owned by my own thinking and feeling.
We are not asking you to believe in anything, all we are doing is showing you another way of dealing with life on life's terms.
we were asked to be willing to believe in a power greater than ourselves to help us to forget ourselves, and how we shouldn't be
prejudice in this power, but understand that we are no longer are in control of our lives, AA or the group you call your own can be the power behind
you. We are not relying on our own resources any longer. I had a hard time with God from my own personal expierences,believe me no one is going to judge you here
there are all kinds of ways you can try, I remember hearing years ago that AA has a wrench for every nut .It works under any and all conditions so just give yourself a break.
Keep that desire you have to get sober. and as was said to me earlier in my sobriety "Come along with us" and live the good life its well worth the time. the more you put
into it the more you will get out of it. Good Luck and Keep Coming John D..Alcoholic

[BigD]

but understand that we are no longer are in control of our lives, AA or the group you call your own can be the power behind
you. We are not relying on our own resources any longer.

This is the main thing I'm struggling with. I do not feel it necessary to give up control of my life. Especially to a group of drunks no better than me that has about a five percent long term success rate. If I'm going to get sober, I'm going to have to use my OWN resources. I will have to do the work myself. No one is going to do it for me, not even God. It will be me. My resources. I believe this in my heart, which is why I am not sure that I am a good fit for the AA program of recovery. Again, no disrespect for those whose lives have been saved by this program. Just not sure it is for me in my current mindset.

I am seeing my doctor on Tuesday, and will ask about medications to help my cravings.

[leejosepho]

... If I'm going to get sober, I'm going to have to use my OWN resources. I will have to do the work myself. No one is going to do it for me, not even God. It will be me. My resources. I believe this in my heart, which is why I am not sure that I am a good fit for the AA program of recovery. Again, no disrespect for those whose lives have been saved by this program. Just not sure it is for me in my current mindset.

Fair enough!

"If he thinks he can do the job in some other way ... encourage him to follow his own conscience ... and that you would like, in any case, to be friendly. Let it go at that." (page 95)

[johnd]

Well Good Luck I hope you succeed with your plan John D

[Tom S]

There are lots of paths; the one I am on is broad and well worn by millions trudging their way forward on a peaceful journey. Lots of guides, signposts, rest stops, repair services and the like. I can get a lift when tired and extend one when refreshed. There is no one leading and yet I feel watched over and serene, not too worried about the destination and my loved ones are safe...pretty sure I can not do this on my own...
If you want what we have, come join us.
Godspeed,
Tom

[PaigeB]

Exceptions to cases such as yours have been occurring since early times. Here and there, once in a while, alcoholics have had what are called vital spiritual experiences. To me these occurrences are phenomena. They appear to be in the nature of huge emotional displacements and rearrangements. Ideas, emotions, and attitudes which were once the guiding forces of the lives of these men are suddenly cast to one side, and a completely new set of conceptions and motives begin to dominate them. (From There is a Solution, pg 27) (emphasis added)

An Atheist, a Deist, a Christian, a Buddhist... it doesn't matter. If I am willing to work it, this program works. Check out the Big Book Appendix II.

http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_appendiceii.cfm

[BigD]

I see no conflict between Deist beliefs and working the steps of AA..

I am intrigued by this statement, and would like some explanation/elaboration, if it's not too much trouble.

For instance, step 2: Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

As a Deist, I do not believe in a God who will restore me to sanity. God doesn't restore anyone to sanity. We must do that ourselves. God created the world and stepped back, gave us free will, and now he just watches. By not intervening in our lives, how would He restore anything?

step 3: turn our lives over to the care of God as we understood him.

As a Deist, I do not believe in a God whom a life can be "turned over to." God doesn't do anything in our lives. He doesn't answer prayer. He doesn't listen to six billion of us. Sorry, I just don't buy it.

Steps 6/7: Were ready to have God to remove/Humbly asked him to remove our shortcomings.

My God, as I understand/believe Him, will not remove anything. If I have shortcomings, I need to work on them myself.

and this part of the program, from Ch. 5, How it works:

"That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.
That God could and would if He were sought."

My Deist belief does not include a God who will relieve anything. We suffer on Earth because of our choices, or external forces. In the case of drinking too much, it is my choice (no one ties me down and pours it down my throat.) My problem is made by me, and therefore can (and must) be solved by me.

[BigD]

I want to add that doing a 5th with your sponsor is very critical. there is lot written for this step in the big book.

Perhaps this is the main reason you are slipping. Scoot up some courage and go through this humbling experience and you will find the power the book talks about.

To be honest, I find the idea of sharing deep fears, secrets, and such with someone who is not a licensed psychiatric practitioner, or a doctor/specialist trained in substance abuse very creepy. Talking about sex? Sounds perverted to me. The whole idea creeps me out. My personal affairs are none of anyone's business. I am a very private person.

[Karl R]

Perhaps our doctor or psychologist will be the person.(p. 74 Alcoholics Anonymous

Certainly the textbook Alcoholics Anonymous allows for this as a quite adequate solution. It might be well for you to read the directions on appropriate persons to hear a 5th step. If your doctor or psychologist fits the criteria in the book; go for it.

Those suggestions are on pages 72 through the very first of page 75 in Alcoholics Anonymous.

regards D.
Karl

[Tommy-S]

Delete

[BigD]

thanks for your support, Tommy. The Helping Hand of AA, always there....