Non Spiritual Basis

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Non Spiritual Basis

Postby avaneesh912 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:00 am

Whether such a person can quit upon a nonspiritual basis depends upon the extent to which he has already lost the power to choose whether he will drink or not.

The above is from the chapter "More about alcoholism" and they have this statement and show this using the examples of the car salesman and the accountant stories. I am so glad Bill and the first few hundreds took time to capture their experience so we all could relate and apply the principles in all our lives.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Non Spiritual Basis

Postby positrac » Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:03 am

Historically up to the real point of staying successfully sober the population was written off as useless and Bill and Dr. Bob were highly intelligent guys who took a lot of risks and thankfully so. Car salesman is so un-expecting until the mind of that man starts "figuring" and what if this and that and it is no return.

On this site it seems we get people who come for the knowledge and figure they can just go on the fly and control the drink, and some others who are like playing quarters and make up stories to see the reaction of those sober people.... :roll:

Coming into AA back in the late 1980's was pretty hard because it was all of these middle aged men and a few women and what did we have in common with each other? Took a while for it to sink in about the alcohol and the addiction of that and the mere symptom and all of the character defects and then they didn't seem so odd after all. They were kind of like parents and yet some were shady as hell even sober. I learned to find those who had what I wanted regarding sobriety and a better life and those others just orbiting around with other ideas I just stayed clear of after being burned a few times because I was young and naïve toward ill gotten gains.

Time has passed and yet those stories resonate facts of our existence and our issues and that is something computers, electronic media, papers on the wall that claim we are smart farts can never manipulate even if the verbiage of the times is different. I tried comparing out in early sobriety and my sponsor told me to listen to the words of what makes me like them instead of what didn't and when I did that and accepted the point I was powerless my life started to change for the better. You old timers know about the peaks and valleys of life and sobriety and how that can hinder our abilities unlike those normal people. I am still hanging in sober, bright eyed with grey and defined crows feet and all of that stuff that comes with age and the goal of life is to finish it all in the pine box when I am finished on this earth and then I'll be cured of my disease. I don't dwell on that point as much as I try to provide points to others on becoming better in a world of distractions and temptation.

This post has had me thinking a lot lately of many events and how I am doing managing them and could I do better in these areas. Answer is yes and I have been chiseling away at those bit by bit and the days are getting better again.
Work hard, stay positive, and get up early. It's the best part of the day.
George Allen, Sr.
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Re: Non Spiritual Basis

Postby D'oh » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:19 am

On this site it seems we get people who come for the knowledge and figure they can just go on the fly and control the drink, and some others who are like playing quarters and make up stories to see the reaction of those sober people.... :roll:


"Scarcely more than Potential Alcoholics" "Spared the last 10-15 years of literal Hell the rest of Us went through."

High Bottom Alcoholics, I have been there, went through that, By the Grace of, made it back. It is only by "Completely giving one's self to this Simple Program, saying "I cannot do this thing called Life on my own." I have been Granted a way to live 1 day at a time, that I could have never imagined.
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Re: Non Spiritual Basis

Postby Brock » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:45 am

avaneesh912 wrote:Whether such a person can quit upon a nonspiritual basis depends upon the extent to which he has already lost the power to choose whether he will drink or not.

I couldn’t have stopped until I lost the power to choose, mainly because I didn't have a powerful enough reason to. But I am glad about that, because if I did I would be a non drinking non spiritual person, and it’s the spirituality which has made the promises of serenity and happiness come true.

I will always be grateful to AA for giving me the ability to stop drinking, and not even think about it again. But I am even more grateful for introducing me to a spirituality which provides a great way to live, and which gets better the more I practice it.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
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Re: Non Spiritual Basis

Postby PaigeB » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:26 pm

People who know I am an atheist often ask "How can you do it?" I guess they assume since I do no believe in traditional definitions & conscripts of "Spirit" and "God" that I am a lost soul.

I remember the very first time someone asked me on the smoking deck after the meeting... "How can you be so Spiritual of you don't believe?" I did not know what to say - I did not have an answer. I did NOT want to come off as the "angry atheist" a) because I was not an angry atheist and b) because that is not how we act in AA. Just how DO we act in AA? I had that answer and the answer came to define my Spirit and my Spirituality for many years to follow. AND I spit out my answer there on the smoke deck without Ego-Thinking it... "Well, I am Spiritual. I believe in the Spirit of Love."

I think that is something we can all get behind. :wink:
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Re: Non Spiritual Basis

Postby 1Peter5:10 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:29 am

PaigeB wrote:People who know I am an atheist often ask "How can you do it?" I guess they assume since I do no believe in traditional definitions & conscripts of "Spirit" and "God" that I am a lost soul.

I remember the very first time someone asked me on the smoking deck after the meeting... "How can you be so Spiritual of you don't believe?" I did not know what to say - I did not have an answer. I did NOT want to come off as the "angry atheist" a) because I was not an angry atheist and b) because that is not how we act in AA. Just how DO we act in AA? I had that answer and the answer came to define my Spirit and my Spirituality for many years to follow. AND I spit out my answer there on the smoke deck without Ego-Thinking it... "Well, I am Spiritual. I believe in the Spirit of Love."

I think that is something we can all get behind. :wink:


My mother and my aunt, devout Christians, used to tell me "We all worship the same God, we just call him by different names."

Traditionally Chinese believe in fate (Taoism). They pray to, and burn incense for, statues of Gods they don't believe in because it helps them ifvthey personify 'fate.' They are too polite to say so but they believe Christians like myself have done the same. We have simply personified fate the way we sometimes name our boats or our cars etc..

I've heard many AA's say things like "I SHOULD have died that night, but I guess God isn't done with me," <-- fate
or
"Once an alcoholic always an alcoholic. Accept it. You can be drunk, or you can be sober but you will ALWAYS be an alcoholic." <---fate
or
"Nothing happens in God's world by accident.There are no coincidences" <--fate.

I don't recall the words, but I've even heard alcoholism described as if it were the impact of not understanding we are governed by fate. We THOUGHT we could drink that much and get away with it.

Or, perhaps my personal favorite. "I didn't surrender in my 3rd step. I finally realized that I was never in charge in the first place." <-- fate

Here's the thing: AA works even for those who don't believe God is a personlike being. You can believe God doesn't exist, that He is just how we personify fate. Or you can believe fate is a tool in God's toolbox.

God has broad shoulders. He is big and strong. If you call Him by the wrong name, He'll forgive you.
He doesn't mind if you call him by the wrong name, does he PageB?
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Re: Non Spiritual Basis

Postby PaigeB » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:17 pm

Ohhh I like this!
Or, perhaps my personal favorite. "I didn't surrender in my 3rd step. I finally realized that I was never in charge in the first place." <-- fate

Weirdly - God is everything or he is nothing...? I was certain it was "nothing" and I still recovered. Now I know that god is every molecule that exists - even farther out than science can see or as tiny as we can imagine.

Certainly - there are many names - and names would not matter in such a Grand scale of things. Names are just human constructs to attempt to define why the mountain blows up.

But really? Names separate us. Paige & Peter are different people... perhaps in every way or perfectly the same. :wink:
If I'm not able to say how I'm working my program today, then I'm not working my program.
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Re: Non Spiritual Basis

Postby 1Peter5:10 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:17 pm

I once heard a man share that through his wreckless pursuit of pleasure he found only pain. <-- karma.

That he had to surrender to win. <-- karma

That through his ego he humbled himself,
but by humbling himself he grew as a man. <--karma

Of course I wanted to tell him "The Lord works in mysterious ways," but cross-talk wasn't allowed. :mrgreen:
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