Forum Guidelines Confusing.

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Forum Guidelines Confusing.

Postby Brock » Wed May 24, 2017 12:19 pm

It's easy to forget how we felt coming here for the first time, maybe nervous and wanting help, we look to the board index and it says “Start Here.” viewforum.php?f=10

Last year one guideline section was rewritten to be more concise, and placed under the name 'admin', it was suggested the other sections like links policy etc. be modified, and included under guidelines instead of being separate, this suggestion was dismissed.

As it stands, this is probably the only recovery site, on which a newcomer will find instructions listed in various members names, and several moderators confusing it by adding their own two cents.

Here are two examples, you want to see how to join closed groups, you see an instruction saying - “I believe, but am not certain that once you have joined the forums…” or you want to join live meetings, you see these instructions - “I guess I don't know much about their rules...”

Recently, a new person who posted a link was directed by a moderator to the links policy, this reminded me of the problems. First the policy is already included under guidelines, but then we have a separate section, (to which the newcomer was directed), where four people have seen it fit to add their own versions of the policy. Here's an example of how to fix that section, remove all four and put a combination of the first two, (by Ian), under the name 'Admin,' like this -
If anyone sends a post to this board which contains a link to another site, it's almost certain to be deleted by a moderator. This is a standing guideline the moderators are working within. If you want your post to remain, don't include a link. Not even to another online AA group.

This particularly includes links in profile signatures. If your profile's signature contains a link to an external site, we strongly suggest removing it otherwise all your posts are liable to be deleted.

The most notable exceptions are links to elsewhere within e-AA, and links to "official" AA or Al-anon sites (such as aa.org, aa-uk.org, etc.).

If you really must have a link to somewhere else, e.g. a personal weblog, your personal profile is the appropriate place to put it.

To access the e-AA links page and contact the links directory editor, click here (insert live link).


Absolutely simple to do, and looks much better and is easier to understand. If help is needed in cleaning up the various other start here instruction sections, I would be happy to assist. If it is not felt that first impressions and newcomer direction are that important, forget this suggestion.
Last edited by Brock on Fri May 26, 2017 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Forum Guidelines issues

Postby PaigeB » Wed May 24, 2017 3:48 pm

As I recall Brock, you were instrumental in helping write the guidelines!

I suppose things may seem confusing, but we are here to help.
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Re: Forum Guidelines issues

Postby Brock » Wed May 24, 2017 4:30 pm

As I recall Brock, you were instrumental in helping write the guidelines

Yes, and after one section was complete I was told to stop, as I said here -
Last year one guideline section was rewritten to be more concise, and placed under the name 'admin', it was suggested the other sections like links policy etc. be modified, and included under guidelines instead of being separate, this suggestion was dismissed.

This is 'low hanging fruit' among possible improvements to these forums, anything to make the guidelines more user friendly, should be tackled ASAP.
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Re: Forum Guidelines issues

Postby positrac » Thu May 25, 2017 2:58 am

I am of the belief that if things can be cleaned up, verbiage reduced and still clear to understand that this should be welcome as questions can clear up grey areas. I also believe that if the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing it keeps us all humble to the cause in which we claim to live by.

I am a no count, and all I have is my sobriety and for me this is enough. As Brock mentioned I remember each of my face 2 face meetings were scary until I surrendered and I wasn't digging the attention I had been given over my denial of the disease of alcoholism. All I have is my integrity and if that is what that newcomer is looking for then I should want to give it away along with how to stay and maintain sobriety.

Low hanging fruit is my reply and II know Brock means well and wants unity because we are in the life and death service in recovery and that is my 1/2 cents worth of nothing.

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Re: Forum Guidelines issues

Postby avaneesh912 » Thu May 25, 2017 4:39 am

I think moderators are currently been stretched thin. I saw a few opting out but no new volunteers. Business Meetings I am told is a best place to voice suggestions.
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Re: Forum Guidelines Confusing.

Postby Brock » Fri May 26, 2017 8:11 am

Business Meetings I am told is a best place to voice suggestions.

Being a forums 'problem,' and one easy to fix, it should be expected it could be handled without going to the business meeting, and I bet if I put it there they will say take it to the forums moderators.

Also, the business meeting itself, does not operate like a 'normal' business meeting in a face to face group, where matters can be discussed and a decision made in a reasonable time. Matters there are dragged out, partly because members have to type in their opinions and questions, but mainly because we have to be polite and 'AA politically correct.' Just like in a live meeting, where a good discussion is flowing nicely, somebody is going to ask about something already covered, or nothing to do with the matter at hand, or just talk about their personal problems. We accept that as part of AA in live meetings, and it seems in business meetings as well, everyone who wants to be part of the decision making process can be, the only requirement being a desire to help.

I believe AA groups everywhere, and maybe especially groups of this type, would benefit greatly by following closer what Bill wrote in concept 9, (with a couple highlights) -
We shall be in continual need of these same attributes—tolerance, responsibility, flexibility, and vision—among our leaders of A.A. services at all levels. The principles of leadership will be the same whatever the size of the operation. Maybe this seems like an attempt to stake out a specially privileged and superior type of A.A. member. But it really is not so. We simply are recognizing that our talents vary greatly. The conductor of an orchestra is not necessarily good at finance or foresight. And it is quite unlikely that a fine banker could be a great musical performer. So when we talk about A.A. leadership we only declare that we ought to select that leadership on the basis of obtaining the best talent we can find.

Instead of allowing certain servants a free reign to operate, like those who understand the technical details of the upgrade this entire site needs, and have been 'discussing' for at least a year and getting nowhere. What happens is everybody who is a member of the business meeting puts in their two cents, they don't understand what is required, and stop important improvements from being done. In concept 10 Bill talks about giving trusted servants authority to do their work, and the fact is this site needs improvement to be more compatible with mobile devices, and we are told by the few who know the technical details, to also prevent the site crashing completely in the future. Instead of giving those few who understand the requirements, and are willing to do the work, some leeway to proceed, everything is slowed to a stop while silly questions are asked.

Right, sorry about that long rant, wish I could put it up in the business meeting itself, but I will get in trouble for acting a bit like Mr. Trump, and not being 'polite' enough, trouble is simple things are taking way longer than they need to.
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Re: Forum Guidelines Confusing.

Postby ezdzit247 » Fri May 26, 2017 2:22 pm

Am I correct in assuming that you want unilateral authority to arbitrarily change the texts of various instructions/guidelines for the e-aa forums based on your own subjective identification of "deficiencies" without having to consult the administer, the moderator team, or the collective group consciences of other e-aa members?
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Re: Forum Guidelines Confusing.

Postby Brock » Fri May 26, 2017 3:38 pm

No you are not correct, when someone offers this - “If help is needed in cleaning up the various other start here instruction sections, I would be happy to assist.”

Why would you say you assume they want - “unilateral authority to arbitrarily change...without having to consult the administer, the moderator team, or the collective group consciences of other e-aa members?”

Unless you are looking to stir the pot of disharmony, a subject which you are highly qualified to write the guidelines for.
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Re: Forum Guidelines Confusing.

Postby ezdzit247 » Fri May 26, 2017 5:44 pm

"Why would you say you assume they want “unilateral authority to arbitrarily change...without having to consult the administer, the moderator team, or the collective group consciences of other e-aa members?"


Your word choices in your statements in this thread, particularly this one:

Instead of allowing certain servants a free reign to operate, like those who understand the technical details of the upgrade this entire site needs, and have been 'discussing' for at least a year and getting nowhere. What happens is everybody who is a member of the business meeting puts in their two cents, they don't understand what is required, and stop important improvements from being done. In concept 10 Bill talks about giving trusted servants authority to do their work, and the fact is this site needs improvement to be more compatible with mobile devices, and we are told by the few who know the technical details, to also prevent the site crashing completely in the future. Instead of giving those few who understand the requirements, and are willing to do the work, some leeway to proceed, everything is slowed to a stop while silly questions are asked.


You wrote:

“If help is needed in cleaning up the various other start here instruction sections, I would be happy to assist.”


That's very generous of you and if Karl or the moderator team determines there is a need for "cleaning up the various other start here instruction sections". they have your contact info.
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Re: Forum Guidelines Confusing.

Postby Brock » Sat May 27, 2017 4:02 am

Your word choices in your statements in this thread, particularly this one:
Instead of allowing certain servants a free reign to operate...

You know very well that I am not a trusted servant here, making the guidelines more user friendly, and technically upgrading the site, are two different things.
...if Karl or the moderator team determines there is a need for "cleaning up the various other start here instruction sections"...

Madam, this entire forum is titled “suggestions,” it's where people who care enough to suggest improvements do so.
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Re: Forum Guidelines Confusing.

Postby Oliver » Sat May 27, 2017 2:17 pm

It sounds like there's a history here that I don't know or understand. I also don't have particularly strong views about the guidelines. Honestly, I don't like disputes like this on a public forum. But Brock and you all clearly care about this meeting and I'm grateful for that today, because this meeting has been good to me over the years.
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Re: Forum Guidelines Confusing.

Postby PaigeB » Sun May 28, 2017 12:49 am

Very true Oliver. We all love AA. That is not in dispute. :) :D :)
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Re: Forum Guidelines Confusing.

Postby Karl R » Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:50 pm

For those that have a view toward needed changes there are moderator positions that need filling. Also the forums coordinator position will be open on 9/1/2017.

See at viewtopic.php?f=14&t=23659 for details.

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