Alano Clubs - Breaking Tradition?

[tomsteve]

I might suggest that a little self reflection may be helpful here. May God Bless You!!!

yes, you could use that.
and thank you for taking my inventory. in doing so, you are leaving someone alone that doesnt know how to handle it yet.

[tomsteve]

This posting is slowly degenerating, so I suggest to the Administrator and Moderators that this thread be closed.

prolly only feel its degenerating because people dont agree with you.

[ezdzit247]

Are you telling me that there are unwritten rules about how to word a posting or just YOUR rules?

The e-aa forum has written "guidelines" about, among other things, how to word postings. You can review them at this link:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20141

"....what is happening here is nothing more than a debate."

Naaah. What's happening here is very definitely NOT debate. One of the first rules of engagement in debate is NO PERSONAL ATTACKS. Ever. Period.

Or are you going to now dispute that I am an alcoholic.

LOL...

Methinks thou dost protest too much.....

[SoberInMI]

May God bless you with a long and sober life!

[Noels]

Good evening everyone I didn't really want to participate in the discussions going on throughout the board since not only do I believe in peace and love, I have also learned and come to understand a deeper meaning of 'hand it over to God '.
It seems pretty clear to me though that we are at times required to take an active 'stand' /role in honouring our personal principles and beliefs.
I have always said - and am speaking as a relatively 'new comer' but regular participater in the 'active ' discussions - that I learn easier when I hear /read others EXPERIENCES, how they overcame that 'defect /difficulty ' STRENGTH and how it worked out for them HOPE.
All I have seen /experienced from ALL the threads and postings where our new member is sharing is aggression, justifying and attacks on a personal level towards our newcomer from our older members. Personally I agree with our newcomer as his postings definitely come to me on a deeper level than what the 'words ' reflect.
One of our older members who incidentally is also an active participant in this particular discussion and many of the other discussions shared not so long ago that we sometimes benefit from not only 'reading ' the post but actually 'ponder ' the meaning of the actual written words. That I have found in the past and still in the present to ring true to me and that is what I find in the postings of our newcomer.
May I suggest at this point that our older and existing members take a pause as suggested in our BB, review all of the threads and postings - not only 'focusing ' on the newcomer like we tend to do, but 'their own answers and responses ' - to this particular newcomer would be a good start?
Welcome to e-aa Sober thank you for your sharings so far. I've enjoyed it and have found much truth in your words. Our members may appear as grumpy at times but don't we all have our 'little things ' that makes us each unique yet 'a part of '?
Thank you for your truth and honesty this far. I do look forward to reading more from you.
Love and light
Noels xxx

[SoberInMI]

I thank you Noels. As AA principles suggest, I should focus on my behavior. I haven't been perfect for which I apologize. But, I have made an effort to tone down my responses even editing some after the fact. I have had some difficulty understanding, but have made some efforts to do so: it is better to understand that to be understood. Sometimes I initially give into an invitation to mix it up, but I usually find that God brings me to my senses and reminds me of the program's principles and I will ask God to bless them.

It has been a while, but I have been banned from other forums and I think that I have learned something as a result. May God keep me on the straight and narrow and bless this forum and its participants.

[Noels]

Hi Sober
no need to be hard on yourself Being a newcomer to our forum our older members could have remembered all we have and is still learning from our beautiful program - to practice respect, acceptance and patience, to keep it simple "silly" (KISS) - be inclusive rather than exclusive - look for the similarities rather than the differences- and possibly most important, to have an open mind as well as the willingness .... (in this instance possibly to "understanding" what you were trying to say rather than take it as a personal attack and to "let our program speak through us/our behavior/reactions" since we don't "advertise" as such and rely on the newcomer "wanting what we have" to take the step which can save them from alcohol addiction.

It does take courage though to see where and what we can still change within ourselves so I do appreciate your honesty.

Have an awesome day and I meant when I said welcome and looking forward to hearing more from you.

Mwah xxx Noels

[ezdzit247]

Hi SoberInMI

Thanks for the topic. To answer your original question about whether or not AA allowing clubs to use the term "Alano" is breaking a Tradition, the answer is no, it is not.

The first clubhouse for the first drunks in recovery was founded by AA members in New York in 1940, about a year after the BB was published and about 6 years before AA's founding members published the 12 Traditions. It was called "The 24 Hour Club". Other clubhouses were established as AA spread across the US and more AA groups were formed. Some started calling their clubs "Alanon clubs". It appears that use of the term "Alanon" became problematic after Lois W. and Anne B. founded "Al-anon" family groups in 1951. It was AA's co-founder Bill W. who requested that clubs use the term "Alano" instead of "Alanon" to avoid confusion with the new Al-anon organization and the clubs have been called "Alano" clubs ever since, regardless of whether the term "Alano" appears in each club's legal documents for their articles of incorporation.

The current trend among Alano clubs, especially in my home state of California, is to rent their meeting rooms to other 12 Step meeting groups in addition to AA groups. I can appreciate that this practice makes good business sense as it increases rent & food sales revenue for the club, and I think it's also a great idea for accommodating those "with problems other than alcohol" like gambling, drugs, overeating, etc. to have all these different 12 Step groups under one roof. Very pragmatic which is one flavor that always appeals to me....

Hope this info helps you resolve your issues. The sources I generally use for anything related to AA history is AAFAQ, AAHistoryLovers@ Yahoo Group, Barefoot's World, Silkworth, and Wikipedia.

Keep coming back....

[SoberInMI]

Hi SoberInMI

Thanks for the topic. To answer your original question about whether or not AA allowing clubs to use the term "Alano" is breaking a Tradition, the answer is no, it is not.

The first clubhouse for the first drunks in recovery was founded by AA members in New York in 1940, about a year after the BB was published and about 6 years before AA's founding members published the 12 Traditions. It was called "The 24 Hour Club". Other clubhouses were established as AA spread across the US and more AA groups were formed. Some started calling their clubs "Alanon clubs". It appears that use of the term "Alanon" became problematic after Lois W. and Anne B. founded "Al-anon" family groups in 1951. It was AA's co-founder Bill W. who requested that clubs use the term "Alano" instead of "Alanon" to avoid confusion with the new Al-anon organization and the clubs have been called "Alano" clubs ever since, regardless of whether the term "Alano" appears in each club's legal documents for their articles of incorporation.

I already referenced material that can be Googled that presents much if this information, so I am familiar with most of it.

That said, I see several problems here. The first is that unless "Alano" clubs were grandfathered, it is still a violation. But grandfathering isn't possible because your information indicates that the name "Alano" came into existence after the 12 Traditions. Second, you can't get around the self-evident fact that "Alano" is a form of Alcoholics Anonymous. I can't say what Bill W was thinking when he suggested the word "Alano" over other possibilities, but just because AA itself doesn't defend its name doesn't make it a non violation. To the contrary, it makes it an "exception" which by definition is not a violation, but still not compliant with the strict rule except that the Tradition does not expressly permit any "exceptions." In legal terms, the failure to defend a registered name leaves it open for others to use. Aspirin and xerography/xeroxing where once registered names which were lost because the respective owners never defended the name. Perhaps Bill W. was suggesting the inevitable knowing that AA couldn't afford the publicity of defending its name. Thus, I think we may have arrived at an answer.

[ezdzit247]

Your issues with what you perceive as AA's/AAWS's "failures" appear to be based on a misunderstanding of both AA's purpose, structure, statement of philosophy, etc, as well as AAWS' mandate within AA's structure. Your posts indicate that you seem to be confusing what you think AA and/or AAWS should be and do with what they actually are and do.

(1) AA's co-foundersl designed AA's structure based on the ideal of "benign anarchy". It's a "bottom up" governance design which begins at the group conscience level of any individual AA meeting group (any two or three alcoholics gathered together for AA's primary purpose.) AA is NOT a "top down" governance design with any central authority.

(2) Everything written in the BB, everything written in the Steps, everything written in the Traditions, and everything else written in any of AA's "conference approved" literature are merely suggestions, not rules or laws. IOW. the only "rule" in AA is there are no rules.

Regarding AAWS, it's mandate is to preserve and protect AA's legacy which by extension means "preserve and protect the copyrights held in trust for all of AA, both here in US/Canada, and through-out the world." AA has never had and has no copyright on the word "Alano" and couldn't get one even it tried as the word existed prior to the formation of AA and is public domain.

[SoberInMI]

AA has never had and has no copyright on the word "Alano" and couldn't get one even it tried as the word existed prior to the formation of AA and is public domain.

You proffer a lot of wonderful theories. For example the Alano name theory. You don't argue that it isn't a self-evident form of Alcoholics Anonymous, but as such AA had control over the name and chose not to defend it thus losing control, probably because of the bad publicity that would result. The name Alcoholics Anonymous was registered long before the Alano name was coined. I suppose that in Bill W. suggesting it that it was an explicit exception to the tradition. That seems to be the answer here.

The rest of your theories are just that, theories without any authoritative support. Still, thanks for your input.

[ezdzit247]

AA has never had and has no copyright on the word "Alano" and couldn't get one even it tried as the word existed prior to the formation of AA and is public domain.

You proffer a lot of wonderful theories. For example the Alano name theory. You don't argue that it isn't a self-evident form of Alcoholics Anonymous, but as such AA had control over the name and chose not to defend it thus losing control, probably because of the bad publicity that would result. The name Alcoholics Anonymous was registered long before the Alano name was coined. I suppose that in Bill W. suggesting it that it was an explicit exception to the tradition. That seems to be the answer here.

The rest of your theories are just that, theories without any authoritative support. Still, thanks for your input.

LOL....

Glad your sober.

Keep coming back.....

[SoberInMI]

May God bless you with a long and sober life.

[Layne]

In the original post you asked

What are your thoughts?

You have a received quite a few thoughts in response. Have they been beneficial and helped to shed any light on things for you?

[SoberInMI]

In the original post you asked

What are your thoughts?

You have a received quite a few thoughts in response. Have they been beneficial and helped to shed any light on things for you?

I think there is a lot of hostility and very little of the AA program principles being practiced.