How Successful is AA ??

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jakpar
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Re: How Successful is AA ??

Post by jakpar »

Steven F wrote:
John Boy wrote:
avaneesh912 wrote:There are the 'Real Alcoholics' and then there are imitations. Real alcoholics need spirituality. Now i am not saying AA is the only program out there but, some form of spiritual solution is a must.
I have news for you yes there are other programs that don't use spirituality and REAL alcoholics are getting and staying sober as a result of them. Only you can't see beyond what is written in the BB.
That's cool. Just two things about that:

1) In AA, the idea is to deflate ego and to grow spiritually. Well, you know all that I suppose.

2) This is an AA forum. In here, we discuss what the programme of AA entails, and we help eachother follow that programme.

We're not saying AA is the only solution, but it will be the only solution discussed in here. Because it is an AA group. If you or Kate would have a desire to advocate other programmes, please go to another appropriate forum. If you would have a desire to tell us that AA doesn't work and that we shouldn't bother, please refrain. You're in an AA group.

I imagine you can guess what happens if you would step into a restaurant saying "the food here won't do you any good, you should try out other places". You got in there because of a desire to stop being hungry, but I'm pretty sure you still would be asked to behave or to leave.

If you have worked the programme, and it didn't work for you, please say so. This being an AA group, I'm sure all of us in here will do our best to help you figure out what went wrong.

If you have worked the programme and it DID work for you, please talk about that.

If you have NOT worked or are NOT working the programme, then I would say it really doesn't matter what your opinions on it are. I'm not interested in what people think of AA. I'm interested in the experience they have with it.
Thanks Steven F, well put
p.s,
IME around bars, I have seen many a person shown the door so they could go to that other bar that pleased them so much!
Jack

"We are of service by accepting responsibility for the authority God has given us and by respecting the authority God has given to others"
Anonymous

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avaneesh912
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Re: How Successful is AA ??

Post by avaneesh912 »

I have news for you yes there are other programs that don't use spirituality and REAL alcoholics are getting and staying sober as a result of them. Only you can't see beyond what is written in the BB.

And how do you know that their program is Not spiritual and those people who are going over there are real-alcoholics? Don't get attached to the words. Go beyond those words.
Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism.(Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

John Boy
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Re: How Successful is AA ??

Post by John Boy »

Steven F wrote:
John Boy wrote:
avaneesh912 wrote:There are the 'Real Alcoholics' and then there are imitations. Real alcoholics need spirituality. Now i am not saying AA is the only program out there but, some form of spiritual solution is a must.
I have news for you yes there are other programs that don't use spirituality and REAL alcoholics are getting and staying sober as a result of them. Only you can't see beyond what is written in the BB.
That's cool. Just two things about that:

1) In AA, the idea is to deflate ego and to grow spiritually. Well, you know all that I suppose.

2) This is an AA forum. In here, we discuss what the programme of AA entails, and we help eachother follow that programme.

We're not saying AA is the only solution, but it will be the only solution discussed in here. Because it is an AA group. If you or Kate would have a desire to advocate other programmes, please go to another appropriate forum. If you would have a desire to tell us that AA doesn't work and that we shouldn't bother, please refrain. You're in an AA group.

I imagine you can guess what happens if you would step into a restaurant saying "the food here won't do you any good, you should try out other places". You got in there because of a desire to stop being hungry, but I'm pretty sure you still would be asked to behave or to leave.

If you have worked the programme, and it didn't work for you, please say so. This being an AA group, I'm sure all of us in here will do our best to help you figure out what went wrong.

If you have worked the programme and it DID work for you, please talk about that.

If you have NOT worked or are NOT working the programme, then I would say it really doesn't matter what your opinions on it are. I'm not interested in what people think of AA. I'm interested in the experience they have with it.

So In one thread I suggest living sober to someone and you undermined that,then I point out that not everyone needed a spiritual experience and you undermined that.
I notice you like to reword my posts ....where did I say AA doesn't work??? I didn't start the thread just commenting on it as it is a board for "discussion".

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Tosh
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Re: How Successful is AA ??

Post by Tosh »

BB Kate wrote: * Those who fail didn't work the program well enough
Those who I see who drink again don't work any program at all. Those who I see working AAs program stay sober. Just going to meetings is NOT working AAs program.

AA isn't perfect, because it's a human organisation and humans aren't perfect. But our literature tells us that it's progress, not perfection that we seek.
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)

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Tosh
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Re: How Successful is AA ??

Post by Tosh »

BB Kate wrote:Tosh,

The 5% statistic has come about through a number of studies. Don't take anyone else's word for it - ready the studies yourself.
Kate, you've got your information from the wrong place and that 5% figure is a misrepresentation of a graph; here's a commentary from a totally unbiased source and nothing to do with AA:
The tendency of some observers to offer a pessimistic view of AA today is based on a misreading of the graph shown
above. It has been extracted from a summary in a 1990 internal GSO report on AA Triennial Membership Surveys.
The misreading of the summary report has been circulated widely. The title of the misquoted graph is "% of those
coming to AA within the first year that have remained the indicated number of months.” Identified as Figure C-1, the
graph is page 12 of the 1990 internal GSO report.
This hand-written graph is at the center of erroneous assertions that contemporary AA has a 5% success rate
outcome.
The sequence of percentages at the bottom ends in 5% above month 12 of the x-axis of the graph. This 5%
value has been erroneously interpreted as the percentage of candidates who stayed a full year and it is a completely
inaccurate interpretation of what the 5% value actually represents. This paper presents considerations and
discussion regarding the graph, its source data, composition, and most importantly, how it should be interpreted.
The source that you PM'd me is not unbiased.

I have PM'd you my source.

Regards,

Tosh

PS. The source I supplied is independent of AA - it was done by some academics - and is called: Alcoholics Anonymous (AA)
Recovery Outcome Rates Contemporary Myth and Misinterpretation, dated January 2008. It's too heavy for me to read all the way through, so I've only skimmed bits of it. :mrgreen:
Last edited by Tosh on Sun May 22, 2011 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)

Henry Porter
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Re: How Successful is AA ??

Post by Henry Porter »

Steven F wrote:
John Boy wrote:
avaneesh912 wrote:There are the 'Real Alcoholics' and then there are imitations. Real alcoholics need spirituality. Now i am not saying AA is the only program out there but, some form of spiritual solution is a must.
I have news for you yes there are other programs that don't use spirituality and REAL alcoholics are getting and staying sober as a result of them. Only you can't see beyond what is written in the BB.
That's cool. Just two things about that:

1) In AA, the idea is to deflate ego and to grow spiritually. Well, you know all that I suppose.

2) This is an AA forum. In here, we discuss what the programme of AA entails, and we help eachother follow that programme.

We're not saying AA is the only solution, but it will be the only solution discussed in here. Because it is an AA group. If you or Kate would have a desire to advocate other programmes, please go to another appropriate forum. If you would have a desire to tell us that AA doesn't work and that we shouldn't bother, please refrain. You're in an AA group.

I imagine you can guess what happens if you would step into a restaurant saying "the food here won't do you any good, you should try out other places". You got in there because of a desire to stop being hungry, but I'm pretty sure you still would be asked to behave or to leave.

If you have worked the programme, and it didn't work for you, please say so. This being an AA group, I'm sure all of us in here will do our best to help you figure out what went wrong.

If you have worked the programme and it DID work for you, please talk about that.

If you have NOT worked or are NOT working the programme, then I would say it really doesn't matter what your opinions on it are. I'm not interested in what people think of AA. I'm interested in the experience they have with it.
I thought that the only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking.The reason I thought this is because it's explicitly stated.Quo Waranto!What authority do you claim for your self to be able to tell people what they should or shouldn't speak about regarding matters concerning AA.Your analogy with the restaurant doesn't hold.Restaurateurs can handle feedback and criticism,but it seems that you think that AA is immune from criticism and you're the AA spokesperson who adjudicates on what ought to be written.Perhaps you could write what types of matters AA members should be prohibited from speaking about.

Steven F
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Re: How Successful is AA ??

Post by Steven F »

Henry Porter wrote:What authority do you claim for your self to be able to tell people what they should or shouldn't speak about regarding matters concerning AA.
I was asking, not telling. There is a difference. And why do I take this position about what I think belongs and doesn't belong in an AA meeting? The 12 Traditions. There is a separate part of this forum available if you would wish to discuss those in more detail.

Whatever else you read into that message is your business, not mine. I'm just here to show other alcoholics precisely how I have recovered. And I would rather appreciate it if we would all be here for that.

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Layne
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Re: How Successful is AA ??

Post by Layne »

I thought that the only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking.
That is very true. At this point, how this discussion is going to help anybody to not drink is beyond me. It appears that more than one participant is focused on proving one's point of view as being right and any other point of view as being wrong, instead of being focused on helping with the issue of not drinking. Can you say self will run rampant?

jak
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Re: How Successful is AA ??

Post by jak »

http://www.aa.org/aatimeline/

check this out for info on AA's success.

jim k

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ann2
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Re: How Successful is AA ??

Post by ann2 »

Thanks for the discussion, all. 4 pages of discussion is very close to my personal limit and I will call a time-out for now, pending review by the coordinator and the rest of the mod team.

Ann
"If I don't take twenty walks, Billy Beane send me to Mexico" -- Miguel Tejada

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