Here is why AA DOES NOT WORK

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schreib
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Here is why AA DOES NOT WORK

Post by schreib » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:00 pm

reason #1 - from first hand experience, once one goes through the steps vigorously, there is a mental change, however, this mental change is not for the better, it creates a new person, someone you dont want to be, but think you have to in order to survive, this mindset is false and is based on others opinions.

reason #2- the big book is not accurate...once again, other's opinions dominate the entire book, the book was written a very long time ago and should not be taken seriously

reason #3- spirituality is not something you gain, its something everyone already has, there are many other ways to be spiritual

reason #4- rigorous action i.e. meetings, sponsors, writing, prayer, actually leads to more resentment when one realizes that overcoming a serious addiction is a nearly impossible task

reason #5- the only way to overcome any addiction is will power, and lots of it, if that involves AA for you somehow, so be it. no one is going to save you, you have to save yourself by building will power and then making it happen in your own life. it takes a lot of focus, but is IS possible to defeat the disease but only you can do it.

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Re: Here is why AA DOES NOT WORK

Post by John Z » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:09 pm

Are you an alcoholic Mr. Schreib?

Steven F
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Re: Here is why AA DOES NOT WORK

Post by Steven F » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:59 pm

Well, I can reply to all five points, but I think it is more useful to ask you if you yourself have actually taken the action as described in the programme of AA. You know, read the book and did what it says?

I mean, I appreciate that AA apparently didn't work for you, but then you will understand I want to know what you understand by AA.

Oh, just so you know: it works for me ;-).

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Karl R
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Re: Here is why AA DOES NOT WORK

Post by Karl R » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:03 pm

So how may we be helpful to you?

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Ken_the_Geordie
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Re: Here is why AA DOES NOT WORK

Post by Ken_the_Geordie » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:08 pm

AA works for me too! Oh, and I'm not very good at will power; so I'm glad I have a program that doesn't require long-term will power to help keep me sober. I've got what we in the UK call the 'breaking strain of a Kit Kat' (that's a biscuit chocolate bar). :mrgreen: Though admittedly it took some grit to begin with, but that's where the strength I received from the AA group helped. I found that when I went to a meeting, it relieved some of the anxiety and obsession with drinking that I had. If AA required will power and strength of character; I'd either be drinking, dead, or locked up now. It's definitely not about will power.

The AA program also means that not only do I not drink, but that I don't feel the need to drink (which is pretty amazing) - and no will power is required - neither do I have a high reliance on meetings; though I still go to two-or-three-a-week; I have a homegroup, I do service, and I sponsor. Why? I enjoy it! If it wasn't fun, I wouldn't do it. And an AA meeting is not 'something I feel I have to do' (even though it maybe something I really need to do), it's something I want to do.

I do agree with the original poster that AA has no claim to 'being spiritual'; after all spirituality is mostly about being good (Senneca said that; not me). But AA never claims to be the sole authority over anything; even getting and staying sober. There are other paths to sobriety I'm sure, I've tried enough of them (and failed), and AA was the one that worked for me.

I also agree that AA can change you; it's changed me from someone who was strongly contemplating suicide with a truly messed up life, to someone who feels happy and excited to be alive again. No longer do I go to bed drunk - having no more drink left in the house - wishing/hoping that I die in my sleep, so I don't have to face yet another morning and all the worry and anxiety that comes with waking up.

AA is the best club in the world, and I find it really rewarding.

Schreib, I wonder what your motivation is for your original post? Are you feeling angry about something?
I'm more commonly known as Tosh (it's a nick name, but everyone I know in real life calls me it); just in case there's any confusion; I tend to use Tosh or Ken interchangeably and it confuses some; including me. ;-)

Sober25
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Re: Here is why AA DOES NOT WORK

Post by Sober25 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:08 pm

And why are we entertaining this person?
AA has one program of recovery - the 12 steps. It's tried, tested, proven and gauranteed.

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Re: Here is why AA DOES NOT WORK

Post by TheresaR » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:01 pm

Actually it is good! There are so many topics in that post.

It reminds me of all the reasons why I am here, and why I keep coming back, and why I'm not hanging out on the rational recovery boards. :-)
Let go and Let God

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Re: Here is why AA DOES NOT WORK

Post by Susan53 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:07 am

Sober25 wrote:And why are we entertaining this person?
I agree not worth house room. I windup.


Take Care

Susan

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Blue Moon
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Re: Here is why AA DOES NOT WORK

Post by Blue Moon » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:51 am

1. So you experinced a psychic change, but not something you wanted due to other's opinions? I guess that's entirely possible, to the extent I continue to allow others to dictate who and what I should become. But I'm not sure where the book says we have to accept another person's conception.

2. Agreed, the book is not accurate. But don't let its age fool you, alcoholics are still recovering by following its directions... to that end, It doesn't have to be accurate.

3. "Spirituality is not something you gain"? Where Is that written?

4. Half of the actions in your list aren't mentioned in the book, yet you omitted one vital one.

5. Then why are you here? Why not overcome your addiction with will-power and get on with life?
Ian S
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John Z
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Re: Here is why AA DOES NOT WORK

Post by John Z » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:07 am

AA may not work for everyone, granted. There are evidently many paths to sobriety, and perhaps there are people who possess the requisite willpower to put the bottle down. I'm not one of them. I need the 12 steps and the fellowship. But I bounced in and out of AA for years before the program finally stuck, before I hit a bottom so hard and so desperate that suicide appealed to me more than anything. At that point I was ready to try anything, I was finally open to anything that might relieve the torture.

Do you know why AA didn't work for me prior to that? Because I didn't actually practice the program. I went to occasional meetings but I didn't read the literature, I didn't talk to anyone, I didn't get a sponsor, I didn't get involved. It was all something for somebody else. I didn't need it, I could do it on my own. So I left those meetings saying AA didn't work. Perhaps that's the place from which this poster speaks.

But when I attended those early meetings, a germ was planted in my mind, and when I was finally open to the message, that germ took root, I got involved, and I've been sober for 14 months now - the longest time I've been sober in the last 20 years. So I think it IS important to share one's message with someone that is doubting the program. There may come a time when that person remembers the words of hope that sober AAs have spoken, and that may well save their life, as it did mine.

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Re: Here is why AA DOES NOT WORK

Post by Roberth » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:35 pm

I agree with you schreib...AA doesn't work for you ........next topic
Robert
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Re: Here is why AA DOES NOT WORK

Post by Lali » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:44 pm

Let's close this nonsense. This happens periodically when a very bitter and angry person hates their life.
Step 1: I can't
Step 2: He can
Step 3: I think I'll let him

Steven F
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Re: Here is why AA DOES NOT WORK

Post by Steven F » Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:41 pm

We are here to show others that it can work, and how that is so. Even if the answers would not be useful to the original poster, they might be to someone else who perhaps wonders about the same things. After all, these statements and the conclusions could very well have been written out in questions, in which case I'm sure we would also have replied.

Simply because we probably have asked ourselves some of these questions somewhere along the line, and have found the answers to them.

reason #1 - I have also wondered if this AA deal wasn't just brainwashing. You know, repeating it all enough so that you start believing it after a while. I stopped wondering after I tried it out and it brought me a happier life. I don't feel I have been brainwashed, and besides, if this is the way brainwashed people live, I don't mind at all.

reason #2 - I also had trouble reading some parts of the big book sometimes. Some of the language is dated, and some stuff I just plainly did not understand (I mean, come on, "to wives" - who honestly found that captivating literature the first time they read it?). The truth today is that it is as much an exercise in reading a text without my preconceptions or judgements based on the language and style. As I started to understand more, I could see past all the defects the text has according to my perceptions, discover the real message in there, and accept it for what it is. That is the stuff in the black bits, by the way. The content between the lines comes from our mind, and it is the one we need to drop.

reason #3 - Spirituality is indeed not something that is exclusive to AA. I think we all know that. And yet I needed the programme of AA to discover and explore spirituality - something I couldn't do on my own, not with all that self-reliance blocking me. AA shows me *A* way *TO* living on a spiritual basis. It isn't "spirituality 101", nor is it probably the only way. It just seems to be a way that works for me. And for many people I got to know in my short "AA career".

reason #4 - If I would rigorously go to meetings, dump my stuff with a sponsor, write and pray, and would not actually take the steps described in the programme of AA, I would feel pretty resentful too. And I actually do get annoyed when people tell me "go to a meeting", "talk to your sponsor" or "have you prayed about it" and leave it at that. That stuff in itself is great, but it doesn't cut it for me. I need the action of the twelve steps. Imagine that nobody would ever have suggested that to me... I would possibly be sitting in meetings feeling sorry for myself, or would have thought "screw it" and have moved on to something else.

reason #5 - It is not uncommon for someone to doubt if that is really a higher power helping us or if it is will-power. We wouldn't be rational human beings if we would never have put that into doubt. The point is that we are willing to believe there is something more than our minds, our will-power. And that we are willing to act on that. I myself stopped doubting once I noticed that life went a thousand times better once I stopped relying entirely on my own self. What is inside me today is definitely more than will-power or "the result of a good talk and some soul-searching", but that hasn't always been as evident to me as it is today.

You see, all stuff we can talk about. So ok, I don't like the attitude either. But the remarks themselves point to questions that are not entirely ludicrous or unheard of...

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Karl R
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Re: Here is why AA DOES NOT WORK

Post by Karl R » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:09 pm

A+ everyone. :-)

K.

John Z
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Re: Here is why AA DOES NOT WORK

Post by John Z » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:27 pm

Hm. Maybe that was Karl testing us, :shock: :P

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