Unmanageable?

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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby Chris S. » Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:16 am

Joey, I understand where you're coming from. Sure, I see people every day that are drinking like or worse than I did. But I know they are not me. I can't judge my inside by their outside. I have no idea what is going on in their lives, how they feel when they look in the mirror. I just don't know that. What I do know is that alcohol kicked my ass time and time again. What I do know, is that I feel alot better about who I see in the mirror now, than who I used to see. What I do know is that alcoholism is a fatal progressive disease. It's not a question of is my life fun or not fun, it is a question of do I live or die.

There was a guy that came in about the same time I did. Really nice guy. We helped eachother alot in those early days. Worked the program and made progress. I moved to a different part of the city for a couple of years, and saw him occasionally. But at some point just before his third anniversary, he started having those thoughts I guess. Well, to make a long story short, he was loved by many, and we were all confused, and heartwrenched at his funeral. He died from alcohol poisoning and was found on his living room couch, bottles spread about the house everywhere.

The lesson for me is that I may have another drunk in me, but I don't know if I have another recovery. It wasn't that last drink that killed my friend, it was that first one.
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby avaneesh912 » Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:19 am

It wasn't that last drink that killed my friend, it was that first one.

Its true that the first one started the cravings but, it was the obsession (in-sanity) that led to the first drink. And the book says the defense MIUST come from his higher power.

In the Chapter more about Alcoholism, our friend Jim had a thought Suddenly.

He had much knowledge about himself as an alcoholic. Yet all reasons for not drinking were easily pushed aside in favor of the foolish idea that he could take whiskey if only he mixed it with milk!

And even though it was the end of a perfect day, not a cloud on the horizon, that didn't help Fred.

As I crossed the threshold of the dining room, the thought came to mind that it would be nice to have a couple of cocktails with dinner. That was all. Nothing more. I ordered a cocktail and my meal.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby Karl R » Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:41 am

Joey,

I know, but there are those moments when my head thinks the other way. Times i ask myself If i really want to stay sober for the next half of my life. I see other people nonchalantly puring themselevs a drink everywhere without a care in the world, why can't I ? I'm not even half as bad as some of those people still out there and they're still drinking and still gettting fixed up, why should I stay sober ?


Reminds me of something from pages 151-152 in the BB.

Now and then a serious drinker, being dry at the moment says, "I don't miss it at all. Feel better. Work better. Having a better time." As ex-problem drinkers, we smile at such a sally. We know our friend is like a boy whistling in the dark to keep up his spirits. He fools himself. Inwardly he would give anything to take half a dozen drinks and get away with them. He will presently try the old game again, for he isn't happy about his sobriety. He cannot picture life without alcohol. Some day he will be unable to imagine life either with alcohol or without it. Then he will know loneliness such as few do. He will be at the jumping-off place. He will wish for the end.
We have shown how we got out from under.


It doesn't have to be like this. The 'How" of how we got out from under is stepwork resulting in connection with a HP who helps us get and stay sober. Spritually fit=sober. When I focus on doing the stepwork necessary to stay spiritually fit one day at a time I stay sober and am not in danger of these thoughts. Once again...the 10th step promises illustrate this point remarkably well. It's not a fight or struggle but sanity has returned. It works.

And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone - even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is our experience. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition.
It is easy to let up on the spiritual program of action and rest on our laurels. We are headed for trouble if we do, for alcohol is a subtle foe. We are not cured of alcoholism. What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition. Every day is a day when we must carry the vision of God's will into all of our activities. "How can I best serve Thee - Thy will (not mine) be done." These are thoughts which must go with us constantly.


cheers my friend,
Karl
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby John Boy » Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:48 am

Unmanageable is just a by product of selfishness.
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby Mike O » Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:22 pm

John Boy wrote:Unmanageable is just a by product of selfishness.



Can you elaborate on this a little?
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby Chris S. » Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:42 pm

John Boy wrote:Unmanageable is just a by product of selfishness.


I like this one, it is absolutely true.

The perceived manageablity of my life depends upon my acceptance of the world as it is, of which I am just a part in service to a Higher Power and fellow man. Unmanageability is what I have when I want the world to be as I think it should be, usually meaning that God and fellow man should be in service to me.
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby John Boy » Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:54 pm

The manageability there talking about is are insistence on managing not only our lives but everyone else lives.

What usually happens? The show doesn't come off very well. (Whose show? his show) He begins to think life doesn't treat him right.( He's not getting his way) He decides to exert himself more.(Still trying to get his way) He becomes, on the next occasion, still more demanding or gracious, as the case may be. Still the play does not suit him. Admitting he may be somewhat at fault, he is sure that other people are more to blame.(Of course they are to blame there not doing what he wants) He becomes angry, indignant, self-pitying.( He starts stomping his feet) What is his basic trouble? Is he not really a self-seeker even when trying to be kind?(He'll be nice to you but you have to do what he wants you to do.) Is he not a victim of the delusion that he can wrest satisfaction and happiness out of this world if he only manages well?( So far he's doing a terrible job of managing/Hence the unmanageability) Is it not evident to all the rest of the players that these are the things he wants? And do not his actions make each of them wish to retaliate, snatching all they can get out of the show? Is he not, even in his best moments, a producer of confusion rather than harmony?

Selfishness - self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles. Driven by a hundred forms of fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, and self-pity, we step on the toes of our fellows and they retaliate. Sometimes they hurt us, seemingly without provocation, but we invariably find that at some time in the past we have made decisions based on self which later placed us in a position to be hurt.( Or to be placed in a position of unmanageability)
So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making. They arise out of ourselves, and the alcoholic is an extreme example of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn't think so. Above everything, we alcoholics must be rid of this selfishness. We must, or it kills us!
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby martin08 » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:03 am

After I had exhausted every possible means of doing the job myself, I considered the Steps. They worked and unmanageability in my life is now relegated to a vivid memory to be used as an example to win the confidence of a hurting alcoholic.

To be specific to those who are going through years of "dryness" but still experience agonizing unmanageability, it is never too late to turn to the Solution that is offered for Spiritual Health in the Big Book. My second Sponsee had more "dry" time than I did! But he wanted a Solution to his unmanageable life. He did the Steps and now shares the Solution with others.

It is never too late to accept the Steps as the only Program of AA that is guaranteed to work. So, a question that can be asked of oneself, "What do I have to lose?" And if the honest answer is, "My miserable life", then my question is:

What are you waiting for? :D
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby Mike O » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:10 pm

John Boy wrote:The manageability there talking about is are insistence on managing not only our lives but everyone else lives.


Welllll....not really. The Step plainly states - "...that OUR LIVES had become unmanageable." That's pretty simple.
Nothing deeper or more complicated than it states on the surface, in my opinion.
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby John Boy » Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:33 pm

Mike O'R wrote:
John Boy wrote:The manageability there talking about is are insistence on managing not only our lives but everyone else lives.


Welllll....not really. The Step plainly states - "...that OUR LIVES had become unmanageable." That's pretty simple.
Nothing deeper or more complicated than it states on the surface, in my opinion.


MY life included trying to run your life, in turn MY life became very unmanageable.
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby ann2 » Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:53 pm

For me that's a very refreshing perspective. I may have considered myself a loner, and my drinking affecting nobody else -- but my alcoholism made me a person that wanted everybody to be different toward ME. If only my parents were such and such or this and that. If only my boss understood my greatness or just let me sleep on the job. Why can't my roommate stop whining about whether or not I am paying this bill or that? All these thing made me very upset, reactive and resentful. I wanted everyone to be different, and instead of dealing with things the way they were, I spent all my energy wishing things were different. Naturally drinking was the best way to handle this method of living life!

Yes, my unmanageability has always been about my selfish attitude toward others, refusing to allow them to be the way they are by my lack of acceptance. Boy was I a fun person to be around. And often still the same way, except thank God at least I know what the problem is.

Life on Life's Terms -- one of my greatest challenges and one of the most healing phrases I know.

Life on Ann's Terms -- not going to happen and honestly, it's a good thing.

Ann
"If I don't take twenty walks, Billy Beane send me to Mexico" -- Miguel Tejada
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby Lali » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:40 pm

Chris wrote:

[quote"]The lesson for me is that I may have another drunk in me, but I don't know if I have another recovery. It wasn't that last drink that killed my friend, it was that first one.[/quote]


Thank you for this reminder, Chris. So many people drink again thinking, like Joey said in his post, that they will just drink again now and get sober later. I have heard soo many stories of people doing just that, and not coming back into AA for 15 years. And like Chris said, many don't make it back at all. In my case, I drank for almost 20 years with very little consequences, quit for 9 months and started again. Well, after 20 pretty much uneventful years (except for screwing up my relationships with men), within a month of drinking again, I was arrested 3 times in a 1 1/2 year period. This is when I learned that alcoholism is indeed a progressive disease.
Step 1: I can't
Step 2: He can
Step 3: I think I'll let him
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby Lali » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:41 pm

P.S. I always try to remember that alcoholism is a disease that tells you that you DON'T have a disease.
Step 1: I can't
Step 2: He can
Step 3: I think I'll let him
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby Chris S. » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:54 pm

lisar wrote:Chris wrote:

[quote"]The lesson for me is that I may have another drunk in me, but I don't know if I have another recovery. It wasn't that last drink that killed my friend, it was that first one.


Thank you for this reminder, Chris. So many people drink again thinking, like Joey said in his post, that they will just drink again now and get sober later. I have heard soo many stories of people doing just that, and not coming back into AA for 15 years. And like Chris said, many don't make it back at all. In my case, I drank for almost 20 years with very little consequences, quit for 9 months and started again. Well, after 20 pretty much uneventful years (except for screwing up my relationships with men), within a month of drinking again, I was arrested 3 times in a 1 1/2 year period. This is when I learned that alcoholism is indeed a progressive disease.[/quote]

We can choose to drink, but we cannot choose the consequences. It was in AA where I learned the fatal nature of this malady. To drink is to die. I liken the thought of taking a drink to playing a game of Russian Roulette. This time, maybe no consequence, but sooner or later...This I learned from experience, mine in that I cannot control my drinking, others experience that this disease is a killer, and we do not get to decide how or when it does so.
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby mariareese » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:45 am

haha .. absolutely drinking can be harmful .. :D
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