Unmanageable?

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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby jak » Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:19 pm

Maybe it is time to look to the book.........

Alcoholics Anonymous
Page 52

We had to ask ourselves why we shouldn't apply to our human problems this same readiness to change our point of view. We were having trouble with personal relationships, we couldn't control our emotional natures, we were a prey to misery and depression, we couldn't make a living, we had a feeling of uselessness, we were full of fear, we were unhappy, we couldn't seem to be of real help to other people - was not a basic solution of these bedevilments more important than whether we should see newsreels of lunar flight? Of course it was.

When we saw others solve their problems by a simple reliance upon the Spirit of the Universe, we had to stop doubting the power of God. Our ideas did not work. But the God idea did.
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby Chris S. » Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:39 pm

jak wrote:Maybe it is time to look to the book.........

Alcoholics Anonymous
Page 52

We had to ask ourselves why we shouldn't apply to our human problems this same readiness to change our point of view. We were having trouble with personal relationships, we couldn't control our emotional natures, we were a prey to misery and depression, we couldn't make a living, we had a feeling of uselessness, we were full of fear, we were unhappy, we couldn't seem to be of real help to other people - was not a basic solution of these bedevilments more important than whether we should see newsreels of lunar flight? Of course it was.

When we saw others solve their problems by a simple reliance upon the Spirit of the Universe, we had to stop doubting the power of God. Our ideas did not work. But the God idea did.


Absolutely, Iagree 100%. Now, from the perspective of your own experience, strength, and hope, what does this mean to you and how did you implement this into your everyday living?

The book has indeed the answers to all of my problems, but until I can discuss what the words mean and gain prespective other my own from those that have been there before me, they are just words, dry ink on paper. Perhaps I'm a little slow on the uptake, but I need discussions of what the book is telling me in order to learn. Otherwise I would not need to go to meetings, talk with my sponsor, or spend time with a newcomer. I could all just stay at home with my Big Book and life would be grand.
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby Mike O » Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:43 pm

Chris S. wrote:
The book has indeed the answers to all of my problems, but until I can discuss what the words mean and gain prespective other my own from those that have been there before me, they are just words, dry ink on paper. Perhaps I'm a little slow on the uptake, but I need discussions of what the book is telling me in order to learn.


This is precisely my reason for starting this thread.
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby jak » Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:18 pm

Absolutely, Iagree 100%. Now, from the perspective of your own experience, strength, and hope, what does this mean to you and how did you implement this into your everyday living?


We were having trouble with personal relationships, I was trying to kill my wife on my last drunk. That negatively affected our relationship. I accepted help from members who had worked the 12 Steps to steer me to working the 12 Steps in order to correct my faults.

we couldn't control our emotional natures, I was upset at work and in danger of getting fired because I would holler and swear at co-workers. I accepted help from members who had worked the 12 Steps to steer me to working the 12 Steps in order to correct my faults.

we were a prey to misery and depression, I was judgemental of myself and my failings and I wanted to be better but everthing I had tried - failed as I got worse and worse. That was depressing. I accepted help from members who had worked the 12 Steps to steer me to working the 12 Steps in order to correct my faults.

we couldn't make a living, I spent all of my money on booze, drugs, and cigs before sobritey and so I had overwhelming debt when I entered AA. I didn't know what to do. I accepted help from members who had worked the 12 Steps to steer me to working the 12 Steps in order to correct my faults.

we had a feeling of uselessness, That feeling came from an experience of being useless. I failed as a husband, a father, a worker and member of my community. (I even voted for Jimmy Carter!!!) I accepted help from members who had worked the 12 Steps to steer me to working the 12 Steps in order to correct my faults.

we were full of fear, I was afraid of people and events and mostly of my unmanageability. I accepted help from members who had worked the 12 Steps to steer me to working the 12 Steps in order to correct my faults.

we were unhappy, I was angry because that seemed to keep some of the fears and most of the people at bay. I accepted help from members who had worked the 12 Steps to steer me to working the 12 Steps in order to correct my faults.

we couldn't seem to be of real help to other people How could I be of help to anyone? How could I even be a Dad for my son? I had no experience from my childhood that I saw as valuable. I had no answers. I accepted help from members who had worked the 12 Steps to steer me to working the 12 Steps in order to correct my faults.

All of this took time and a lot of honesty and willingness and prayer and abstainence. Meanwhile my life remained a collection of problems that were addressed one at a time by the 12 Steps and frequent contact and fellowship with people who were like me.

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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby PeterG » Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:37 am

Its a funny thing about sobriety... the longer we keep coming around the more we remember about our drinking days and what they were really like....We have a saying here among the old timers... "The Longer I'm sober the drunker I was..."
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby Joe H » Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:17 am

I just wanted to open a topic for discussion is all, Joe. You seem to have taken offence - I certainly meant none.


Mike, you have not offended me at all. Given my experiences in life I am not offended easily, live and let live. I believe the defect in Internet discussions is the fact that we cannot tell the demeaner of the poster. I, in fact, am a soft spoken person. Even in the violent, unforgiving world that I once was apart, I was never a loud person. As an aside, I was happy to end my term as DCM and turned down request to stand for state wide service positions. Why? Because some one was always asking me to speakup. LOL I can't.

The reason I shared what I did was because I do not believe (my humble opinion only based on my experiences and that of watching others) that still having "things" or not having them has anything to do with the unmanageability of alcoholism. No matter if I was living in a nice warm house, or sitting in jail or sleeping in the back of an old car, something went off in me that said "I need a drink."

Alcoholism is a progressive disease. I was a hard drinker by the time I was sixteen. I worked hard to climb out of my early environment of poverty and street violence into the "dream" middle class with all the desired trimmings... good job, good family, nice house in the country with all the modern wants and pleasures, a garage with new cars @ truck and bike with a boat as big as the garage parked beside it. With all these pleasures I still lacked happiness and/or serinity. Constant each day was the need to have a drink. My drink was rationalized and justified and of course I denied any problem underlying the fact that I no matter how I felt or what was going on. I could not manage to not take a drink and once I did I ended up drunk.

After my nine year old daughter died in my arms another progression started, a much more rapid progression. It was the progression of losing all things dear to me. At the same time my intake of alcohol was progressively all-consuming. When I started losing things it was okay. I once again was able to rationalize and justify with complete sence the losses and deny that I or my drinking had any part in the chaos. We were simply innocent victims. It was like I was flailing away in a bog with the attitude of well this isn't so bad and it is obvious that I can't do anything about it. I slipped further and further down. Even my childhood friends that I once rode with proudly on those chromed-out Iron Horses who would fight along side me with not a least hesitation wanted nothing to do with me. I became alone and broken but it was okay, I still managed to get a drink.

On my last night of drinking I had nothing left to manage, life was easy. Where in fact even with nothing it was unmanageable, I couldn't not take a drink.

My life started to become manageable when at that point I became sick and tired of being drunk I called out for help. Where there was a time I could not manage to not take a drink, there is now this day when I cannot imagine why I would want to take a drink. No matter what is going on, I am okay just being me. I do not have a desire to take a drink. That to me is manageability.

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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby Mike O » Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:36 pm

OK, Joe. Thanks. My mistake.

:D
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby Chris S. » Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:40 pm

Joe H wrote:
I just wanted to open a topic for discussion is all, Joe. You seem to have taken offence - I certainly meant none.


...When I started losing things it was okay. I once again was able to rationalize and justify with complete sence the losses and deny that I or my drinking had any part in the chaos. We were simply innocent victims. It was like I was flailing away in a bog with the attitude of well this isn't so bad and it is obvious that I can't do anything about it. I slipped further and further down...

...Where there was a time I could not manage to not take a drink, there is now this day when I cannot imagine why I would want to take a drink. No matter what is going on, I am okay just being me. I do not have a desire to take a drink. That to me is manageability...

joe


That is some good stuff Joe, thanks for that.
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby avaneesh912 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:46 am

Resentment is the "number one" offender. It destroys more alcoholics than anything else. From it stem all forms of spiritual disease, for we have been not only mentally and physically ill, we have been spiritually sick. When the spiritual malady is overcome, we straighten out mentally and physically.

I could relate to these statements in the big book. I was filled with lot of resentments (re-feeling the old events over and over again) therefore i was restless irritable and discontent and that led me to my drinking. Once i realized that, I had to put down the resentments, fear and relationship with others on paper and see the selfishness and self-centered-ness.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby joey » Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:41 am

Good post Joe.A very important point you made was that inspite of everyting going for us we still watn a drink.

Just the other day I was out partying with friends. It was a strange experience because all 3 of them were drinking and I wasn't. And the next day I asked myself - wouldn't it be cool to just have a few drinks, maybe - just maybe I can handle it now, and if I can't then i'll get sober again.

And that's the thing, inspite of enjoying these 3 years of sobriety there are those moments when I think it would be cool to drink again.
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby mebill » Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:33 am

I'm thinking --- "how cool it is to NOT be drinking"! :D
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby joey » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:03 am

mebill wrote:I'm thinking --- "how cool it is to NOT be drinking"! :D


I know, but there are those moments when my head thinks the other way. Times i ask myself If i really want to stay sober for the next half of my life. I see other people nonchalantly puring themselevs a drink everywhere without a care in the world, why can't I ? I'm not even half as bad as some of those people still out there and they're still drinking and still gettting fixed up, why should I stay sober ?

I have to fight hard to remember where I could be if I ever went back.
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby mebill » Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:12 am

I did go back out there Joey. I spent 3 years living my old lifestyle, trying to moderate, etc. It was a slippery slope, and led to me finally humble myself and once again, "admit" I am an alcoholic. As hard as it was to walk back through the doors of an AA meeting room, I thank my higher power that the people in the room knew of my suffering and helped me find my way again. Cunning, baffling??? Oh yeah! And then some.

Hang in there Joey, I don't want you to have to experience what I did. Hang on to your soberity with everything you have!
Sober is Cool! Way Cool!!!

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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby Joe H » Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:33 am

joey wrote: Times i ask myself If i really want to stay sober for the next half of my life.


Joey, I do not worry about staying sober for the rest of my life, however long that may be, I do not even think about how I will or if I will be sober tomorrow, today is the only day I have to keep my recovery my number one priority.

My recovery from alcoholism has been and remains a spiritual journey lived one day at a time. Today is the only day I do not have to pick up a drink.
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Re: Unmanageable?

Postby Lali » Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:45 pm

Joey, I don't know but it seems to me that you shouldn't be feeling this way with 3 years of sobriety. Do you have a sponsor? Maybe you need to make some changes to your program, i.e., more meetings, more prayer, step work, do some service work?
Step 1: I can't
Step 2: He can
Step 3: I think I'll let him
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