Ranks of effective treatment

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Ranks of effective treatment

Postby kaosxtech » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:10 pm

I was browsing and reading and I found this article that mentioned the book "Handbook of Alcoholism Treatment Approaches: Effective Alternatives". I was curious about it, because unlike what many say, AA does recognize that we are not the only solution. AA has worked for me so far. I have yet to have a relapse and have grown in many ways that I feel thankful and grateful for. Back to the thing I read. I looked up a list of effective treatment and was shocked to find AA was number 38 when things like self control was number 7. I think people are just "haters" at the fact that its a spiritual program and they want desperatly to find another solution that doesnt require that aspect. Anyway I wanted to share the partial list I was able to find and hear your feedback on the other solutions that was mentioned in our big book.

1. Receiving honest but non-confrontational one-on-one feedback regarding one’s alcohol- related health from a health professional;
2. Non-confrontational strategic Motivational Interviewing;
3. The medication acamprosate;
4. A complex set of cognitive and behavioral methods called the Community Reinforcement Approach
5. The assigning of a Self-Change Manual, also called Bibliotherapy
6. The medication naltrexone;
7. Behavioral Self-Control Training (a moderation approach);
8. Behavioral Contracting for rewards given in exchange for clean drug test results:
9. Social Skills Training
10. Behavioral Marital Therapy
A common theme in all of these treatments is that they are delivered with empathy and without confrontation. These treatments are often mentioned in media articles about improving our poor record in helping people with addictions. Unfortunately, few addiction treatment centers offer them. However, with the aid of the internet one can find them more easily than before.
Alcohol treatment with weak evidence of effectiveness
Of the 48 approaches ranked, the evidence is weakest for:
48. Educational tapes, lectures and films, upon which much time is spent in some rehabs;
47. General Alcoholism Counseling;
46. Psychotherapy;
45. Confrontational Counseling;
44. Relaxation Training;
43. Videotape Self-Confrontation or watching oneself behaving badly while intoxicated;
42-39.These four included three medications and Milieu Therapy;
38. Alcoholics Anonymous
37. Twelve-Step Facilitation Therapy, a one-on-one teaching and support of the 12-Steps.

Thanks again for this great forum!
Selfishness—self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles. (Alcoholics Anonymous, page 62)
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Re: Ranks of effective treatment

Postby Shoreline » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:28 pm

A lot of these methods are not free or easily available. AA is free, there are meetings all over the world, also I think you can get the Big Book for free online on the AA website. So in my opinion if someone thinks they have a problem with alcohol, AA is one of the easiest methods to try, and if they feel it is not working for them then try another method.
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Re: Ranks of effective treatment

Postby Blue Moon » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:49 pm

On what basis do they evaluate "effective"? To see AA listed alongside certain medications, I do wonder if we are confusing "detox" with "recovery", "AA attendance" with "AA program", or even "alcohol abuse" with "alcohol dependency ".

Here's a clue you'll perhaps not find in such a book: the alcoholic problem is not really alcohol.

This is why we have no opinion on outside issues. We don't deny that other options exist, but here in an AA Group we talk of alcoholism and recovery using AA's program, using AA's materials.
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Re: Ranks of effective treatment

Postby Brock » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:51 pm

...was shocked to find AA was number 38 when things like self control was number 7. I think people are just "haters" at the fact that its a spiritual program and they want desperatly to find another solution that doesnt require that aspect.

When I see something like self control listed at 7, or especially this at #1 - “Receiving honest but non-confrontational one-on-one feedback regarding one’s alcohol- related health from a health professional.” Then my feeling is that they are not talking about the type of alcoholic that requires the spiritual approach, it may work with the type described in ‘There is a Solution’ - “Then we have a certain type of hard drinker...the warning of a doctor becomes operative, this man can also stop or moderate, although he may find it difficult and troublesome and may even need medical attention.” These solutions may be workable for the ‘weekend warrior’ type of alcoholic, but as our book says “what about the real alcoholic,” here nothing but a spiritual awaking will work.

And even while people might shy away from the spiritual approach, in my opinion all of the others listed, even if they work and you no longer drink, it’s the spiritual side that allows AA to promise things like serenity and happiness. And the peace and serenity is progressive, the more we develop spiritually the happier we become. I doubt any other method can claim these benefits over and above stopping drinking that AA can.
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Re: Ranks of effective treatment

Postby 1Peter5:10 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:59 am

"There has never been an effective study assessing the effectiveness of any treatment for alcoholism and there never will be one."

This statement, or words to that effect, was made to me by more than one treatment professional while I was in a residential treatment program.

If you took the name, address, email and phone number of everyone in this room today, (the speaker was addressing a room of 70-100 addicts and alcoholics in their first 30 days of an attempt at sobriety,) and tried to contact them 6 months,
2 years, 6 years in the future and ask if they were still sober you would not be able to contact most of them. If you tried to call them up, or send them a letter, or a survey or an email, asking 'are you still sober? Did you relapse in between, the response rate would be nearly ZERO,


The simple fact that many of us, within two years would be dead, or on the street, or living in a flophouse or a drug house and CERTAINLY not in possessian of the sanme phone number weighed on me.

The simple fact that addicts LIE, and say they are sober when they are also entered my mind.

We don't even know if THIS works, said the speaker, refering to the fact that the treatment center, and its methods were less than a decade old.

ANY study that claims to know the effectiveness of ANY treatment center was produced by a liar and is believed only by fools.

But we know that 12-step programs work, maybe 10% maybe 90% of the time, we don't know the rate, but we know that they work because thousands abd thousands and thousands of people 'come out the other side' professing 2, 5, 10, even 40 years sobriety. We don't know 'the rate,' but no treatment center, no strategy, no other approach can make that claim."


Those words stuck with me.
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Re: Ranks of effective treatment

Postby PaigeB » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:55 am

1. Receiving honest but non-confrontational one-on-one feedback regarding one’s alcohol- related health from a health professional;

Doctor's writing that doctors are the best, so pay me. Totally a self-serving statement.

I laugh. :lol: :lol: I tried nearly ALL of these to no avail before I got to #38. I was a really good liar. I still am. But my Daddy used to say, "You can't con a con man" and he was right - the people in AA would see right through me, (with Love and some amusement), so I quit trying and got honest. :mrgreen:
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Re: Ranks of effective treatment

Postby Db1105 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:26 pm

Yup, AA is WAAAAAAY down on the list. It went well below 38 for me, but whatever number is was, I haven't had to do try anything else since I started working The Twelve Steps. One other point. AA is not free. It is self supporting though OUR OWN contributions.
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Re: Ranks of effective treatment

Postby tomsteve » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:29 pm

i read a lot of things there that wouldnt help for the real alcoholic the BB talks about.
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Re: Ranks of effective treatment

Postby D'oh » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:27 pm

tomsteve wrote:i read a lot of things there that wouldnt help for the real alcoholic the BB talks about.

I second that one.

It is like the "Suggested Instructions" for assembling Ikea Furniture. You don't have to follow it, but the finished product might not look like the picture on the box.
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Re: Ranks of effective treatment

Postby 1Peter5:10 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:31 pm

The way I heard it there has never been a statistical study of any recovery method including AA. (37 of them? C'mon I wasn't that delusional when I was drinking.rolleyes)

When there is a study that surveys 'X' number of alcoholics attempting recovery,

THEN contacts them 2 years later, (good luck with that) and asks "Are you still sober,"

THEN there will be ONE actual statistical study of how effective ONE method or ONE treatment center is.

Until then, we have thousands and thousands and thousands of high- middle- and low-bottom drunks, using the 12 steps.

These men and are rich, and poor, poor, from big cities, and small towns, Christians, Buddhists, and Gaia Nature worshippers, and atheists who believe only in fate, karma etc.. They are gay and straight. They live on every continent. They sought recovery at every age, have even named co-occurring mental disorder, and have found recovery in the 1930's, the 1970's and today.

In active addiction I was pretty adept at ignoring or shutting out the obvious, but I thank God, I was never so far gone as to be able to ignore the above.

There has never been a valid statistical study of AA or any other method, because contacting a bunch of drunks 2 years after they attempt revovery is impossible, but we know the 12 steps work because we have thousands and thousands and thousands of data points saying it does.
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Re: Ranks of effective treatment

Postby positrac » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:33 am

PaigeB wrote:
1. Receiving honest but non-confrontational one-on-one feedback regarding one’s alcohol- related health from a health professional;

Doctor's writing that doctors are the best, so pay me. Totally a self-serving statement.

I laugh. :lol: :lol: I tried nearly ALL of these to no avail before I got to #38. I was a really good liar. I still am. But my Daddy used to say, "You can't con a con man" and he was right - the people in AA would see right through me, (with Love and some amusement), so I quit trying and got honest. :mrgreen:


That is a good down to earth way of looking at our lives before we get sober is a constant con on the lookout for a hook for a fix.
I see these commercials of these treatment centers that provide this new age kind of recovery with no meetings! Almost sounds like Nutrisystem you lose weight with no meetings! These places look like 5 star resorts and I need a vacation so hook me up! AA has been around a long time and it works with effort and you know this Paige. But if you re-invent the wheel what do you have? The same wheel with some cosmetic changes and it still rolls like the old wheel. Kind of like denying that old wheel ever existed. :roll:
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Re: Ranks of effective treatment

Postby avaneesh912 » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:43 am

I believe the alcoholic, is a rebel by nature. He/she going to try all the options out there before realizing that he/she can't do this alone. There are varied level of alcoholism and some do find success in other options and they fail to realize it may not help others. And then those that fall into the trap of moderation. If fact the founder of MM was one of us. The person had to kill a family and then come back to the rooms. But the guilt and shame kept her from embracing the program and eventually died. The one cliche thats so true is we are the "last house in the block".
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Ranks of effective treatment

Postby Mary » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:35 am

'Honest but non confrontational feedback' - hilarious. Anyone here like looking for needles in haystacks?

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Re: Ranks of effective treatment

Postby D'oh » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:22 pm

PaigeB wrote:
1. Receiving honest but non-confrontational one-on-one feedback regarding one’s alcohol- related health from a health professional;

Doctor's writing that doctors are the best, so pay me. Totally a self-serving statement.

I laugh. :lol: :lol: I tried nearly ALL of these to no avail before I got to #38. I was a really good liar. I still am. But my Daddy used to say, "You can't con a con man" and he was right - the people in AA would see right through me, (with Love and some amusement), so I quit trying and got honest. :mrgreen:

Makes the "Humility" of some like Dr. Silkworth, even more Unbelievable, much like the moment in time Bill W, was in the Hotel Lobby.
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Re: Ranks of effective treatment

Postby Roberth » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:32 am

Hmmmmm in actuality the top rated one should be the one that worked for you. Personally other than will power, AA was the first one I try and I have been sober since my first meeting. I am not a poster boy for AA but I have not needed to take a drink in over 26 years. Not sure I really need to try any other way.
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