Ranks of effective treatment

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Re: Ranks of effective treatment

Postby Blue Moon » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:00 am

Twelve step facilitation groups have been shown to come in at around 12 percent effective, which is as good as it gets.


Do they study those who actually take the Steps? Many walk into AA, seem to do little but place a bum on a seat, and expect to get recovery through some sort of group-therapy. So we should be careful about publishing here any opinion about how effective AA might be, because at best it's subjective opinion. We could just as easily claim that 88% of people who walk in don't even stay long enough to do the work.

A proper study would have fMRI scanning of a multitude of test-subjects over many months undergoing recovery activity. Real cost for a 1-year study: $120M, and the loss of many trained staff from more-productive use of their time. All to study the effectiveness of a recovery program that will never be charged for.
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Re: Ranks of effective treatment

Postby Greywolf » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:30 am

Blue Moon wrote:Many walk into AA, seem to do little but place a bum on a seat, and expect to get recovery through some sort of group-therapy.
New Jersey must be a special place where "many walk into AA..."

In North Carolina few "walk into AA." Most are coming from somewhere like treatment, The Healing Place or some other form of rehab. The very few who walk in are looking for some help in doing something about their drinking problem, not expecting "to get" recovery.

By the time they cycle through the system and finally get to AA the first thing they need to do is recover from treatment. This comment is from someone who went to treatment, came to AA, got sobriety, stayed sober and died sober. IMO they need to get disabused of the notion that going to classes and studying the BB constitutes knowing how to stay sober.

For the very few who walk into AA and really try to get sober I doubt there is much bum sitting and expecting anything to happen without some effort on their part.
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Re: Ranks of effective treatment

Postby Blue Moon » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:00 am

Greywolf wrote:In North Carolina few "walk into AA." Most are coming from somewhere like treatment,

So they walk into AA having gone through treatment.

If people need to be disabused of what happens in a treatment facility, this needs to be addressed by the facility. AA's Treatment Facilities committees in that district can help them with this (eg explain what AA is or isn't, as it relates to.alcoholics, addicts, etc.) But an individual AA group such as e-AA cannot assist them with this.
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Re: Ranks of effective treatment

Postby Spirit Flower » Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:13 pm

the first thing they need to do is recover from treatment
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Ranks of effective treatment

Postby Spirit Flower » Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:16 pm

a good proportion of the 88% are court ordered and have no intention of getting sober.
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Re: Ranks of effective treatment

Postby Greywolf » Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:24 pm

Blue Moon wrote:If people need to be disabused of what happens in a treatment facility, this needs to be addressed by the facility.


Don't know about what "happens" in a treatment facility and never said I did. What I actually said was, "disabused of the notion that going to classes and studying the BB constitutes knowing how to stay sober."

I believe you said in another thread that after he stopped drinking and before he talked to Dr. Bob Bill turned off prospects by telling them what was wrong with them (re their alcohol problem). I assert that being force fed the BB with its heavy dose of God is about as distasteful to "dry" alcoholics as Bill's prospects found listening to Bill.

There's a lot more to be said but not now.
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Re: Ranks of effective treatment

Postby Greywolf » Thu May 03, 2018 8:19 am

Brock wrote:Perhaps the way I wrote it, it came over as uncaring, that’s the limitation we have not being face to face, but I don’t expect to be judged unfairly on one quote.

Brock, judging unfairly or fairly is perhaps a limitation we have not being face to face. Over the span of several quotes (if there is such a thing as a span of several quotes) I have formed an opinion of you, And your posts are showing up for me in a different way. Good way, I might add. =biggrin

I don't care how much you know until I know how much you care. After reading several of your posts I get a sense of how much you care which has me interested in what you know.
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Re: Ranks of effective treatment

Postby Tosh » Sat May 05, 2018 12:04 pm

A.A. doesn't own God or spiritual awakenings; who is to say how an alcoholic can or can't recover?
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)
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Re: Ranks of effective treatment

Postby Bovine Scat » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:44 am

I was recently at a discussion meeting where one of the attendees mentioned that she was attending "Dialectical Behavior Therapy" sessions.

Of course I ran home and Googled it. What it basically consists of is getting a person to change his/her behavior dramatically.

As I read on, I realized that the 12 Steps and "Dialectical Behavior Therapy" are variations on the same theme.

I often hear the phrase in A.A. that a person "needs to change every but his name".

So can a person keep his character defects in check via programs other than A.A. ? YES!!!!!!!!!!!!
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