Complicating Quiting Again

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Re: Complicating Quiting Again

Postby 1Peter5:10 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:42 pm

03sonicstang wrote:THank you for your kind words and I'll re-read that chapter tonight. That's the problem for me, just don't know if I'm that kind of alcoholic. I've been down a deep path, but got out and feel kind of OK with my drinking.....I dont really know.

I have my normal therapy tomorrow so that's always a good thing.

Again thanks for your response!


Thank you for your reply.
Just a side note. AA"'s founders were delighted to find that the AA program also works for "lesser" alcoholics. (High-bottom drunks ir whatever )
- Given the cost of medical or psychological treatment centers . . .
- Given the fact that many alcoholics drink their way out of employer-provided insurance, etc. . .
A LOT of people for whom other methods MIGHT have worked are happily attending AA meetings, building a sobriety network, sharing war stories etc., with all sorts of ex-drunks who "Stopped in Time."

In fact, a large section of the stories in the back if the book are written by and about such experiences.
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.
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A little more of my own "experience, strength, and hope":

I didn't 'get' AA on my first go-round. I REALLY wish I had. Back when I was just a garden variety middle class dad with a drinking problem, I attended a few AA meetings in the basement of my familily's (Catholic) church.

There were 1 or 2 low bottoms there, but I fit in well with most of the attendees. I was a coach in the church little league, one of the church ushers was there, as were some people not from our parish and "that lady" who alwats sat 3 rows behind me in church and sang "with that God awful voice."

I was convinced that all of these people"have it worse than I do," and most of them "have problems in addition to their alcoholism." (This despite the fact that one of the Parish priests attended one of our meetings, and he wasn't there to remind us to turn off the coffee machine, if you get my drift.)

To whatever degree those assessments were correct (or in correct), the whole thing struck me like it relied on some sort if spooky spirityal faith-healing the likes of which is usually practiced by televangelists whose next step is to ask for donations. (I had a million objectiobs, and now was not the time, and THAT was not the way.)

Either way, that was about 4-5 years ago. When I went to the meeting, I kissed my wife good-bye, stepped out of the house, drove to the meeting with a yet unopened liquor bottle in my car. (the only requirement for membership IS THE DESIRE to stop drinking), and when I came home, my son congratulated me.

Those things,
- the wife,
- the house,
- the car, and
- my son,,
they are now all gone now.

That was two-and-a-half years before my bottom.
I really really wish I had 'gotten it' the first time around.
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Re: Complicating Quiting Again

Postby 1Peter5:10 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:56 am

PaigeB wrote: (snip)
ok... ask deep in your inner-most self about this, from BB The Doctor's Opinion, p.xxviii
. . . . the phenomenon of craving is limited to this class and never occurs in the average temperate drinker.

Never is a pretty strong word. The good Doctor uses it a few times in that paragraph.
https://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/en_bigb ... pinion.pdf
Look it up and ponder on it a bit. Remember - we are talking about the fact that it NEVER has occurred...

I hope you don't have to suffer losing it all (including your life or the lives of others) to come to a fuller understanding of the condition of alcoholism.


I like that.

I like it a lot. I keeps things much simpler than my long-winded statement and history.

"the phenomenon of craving . . . never occurs in the average temperate drinker."

SOME alcoholics can be treated using other-than-AA means, but "the phenomenon of craving . . . never occurs in the average temperate drinker."

Wow.
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Re: Complicating Quiting Again

Postby gaftech » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:31 am

Hi Tom,

There are several things you said that I can definitely relate to. I'm 60 and up until 4 months ago, I was a functioning alcoholic for over 40 years. Actually, I was an out-of-control alcoholic in my younger days, which lead to me joining the Navy in 1980 just to have a job. I had a slight drying out period during the 2 months of boot camp, but the minute I graduated, I was back to it. Over the next 6 years I managed quite well to get to work on time (although hung over many times) and do my job. In 1986 I got into trouble and the Navy decided I had a problem and sent me to rehab and to mandated AA meetings. Didn't like it one bit and thought I had nothing in common with those drunks I was surrounded by. I was married by then, and had a beautiful baby girl, so I managed to stay sober for 2 years.

During the next 8 years, I had a great life even though I was drinking a 12-pack a night and up to a case a day on the weekends. As family life took over, we attended fewer and fewer parties so I had little feedback from outside the family telling me I had a problem. My wife would mention it from time to time, but I dismissed it and always told her I'd slow down...which I'd do for a short while, but eventually ended back to the "normal" drinking. I managed to stay out of trouble and how I managed to not get a DUI is a mystery.

In 1996, the Navy once again said it had an issue with my drinking, well, wash, rinse, repeat. Managed to stay sober for a little over a year before I started back up. Retired in 2000 at age 42 and entered the civilian job force. By this time I was a lone drinker. When we did go to a party, I would get buzzed beforehand and drink little at the party because in the back of my mind there was a voice telling me not to get drunk because people would talk. I couldn't stand the thought that people would think I was an alcoholic, so I drank alone.

Over the next 17 years, I tried to quit several times, lasting anywhere from several days to several weeks. I distinctly remember going to gatherings of friends when I wasn't drinking and everyone else was (including my wife) and feeling like I was an outcast. I remember one gathering where a friend came up and mentioned that I was drinking a soda and my wife jumped in and said that I had quit drinking. The friend said, "Well good for you!" and turned around and walked away. I felt humiliated, and if I remember correctly, started drinking again shortly after that. I eventually stopped going to gatherings altogether just to avoid people asking me questions about my drinking. I eventually reached MY rock bottom when I got sick and tired of being sick and tired. I wouldn't go anywhere except to work and back home again to start drinking. That's when I reached out for help and went to a detox center for a week.

You mention not being sure how you would function without alcohol in your life. I personally found it liberating since it allowed me out of my self-imposed prison. Heck, just being able to drive somewhere without the fear of being pulled over is sometimes overwhelming! Seriously though, it can be frustrating at times, at least for me. But I try to just take it a day at a time. I keep the memories of how I felt physically after drinking close to me, to remind me that I don't have to feel that way anymore.

One last thing and I'll shut up...go to meetings. As many different groups as you can. I probably went to 6 different groups before I finally found one that resonated with me. Go and listen to the stories. At some point something someone says will connect with you, then someone else and someone else. This is what keeps me coming back and what keeps me sober.
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Re: Complicating Quiting Again

Postby Brock » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:53 am

I was 60 myself when I finally accepted what AA had to offer, 69 now and enjoying sobriety way more than I ever imagined I could. One of the things I found, is that just as alcoholism is progressive, once we keep seeking the life promised by following steps 10 & 11, the happiness and contentment is progressive as well.

Some great truths were shared in this thread between last night and this morning.

1Peter5:10 said -
Those things,
- the wife,
- the house,
- the car, and
- my son,,
they are now all gone now.

That was two-and-a-half years before my bottom.
I really really wish I had 'gotten it' the first time around.

As one who also turned his back on AA, and didn’t think he qualified as an alcoholic, until loosing many things, that post resonated with me when I read it last night. Fortunately thanks to the program of AA, I got back on track and have a great life now.
the phenomenon of craving . . . never occurs in the average temperate drinker.

I believe one of the best test’s offered in the book, is the one related to craving -  “We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself, step over to the nearest barroom and try some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly.” For the alcoholic our literature describes, this leaves us with a crappy unsatisfied feeling.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
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Re: Complicating Quiting Again

Postby avaneesh912 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:01 am

The phenomenon of craving is very important and only manifests in we alcoholics. But we should also consider our mind. The state of mind that precedes the first drink is very important to look into. The beautifully illustrate that state of mind using the stories in the chapter "More About alcoholism". The man of 30 doesn't even know what alcoholism was, the car salesman admitted he was alcoholic but failed to enlarge his spiritual life. Fred the accountant wouldn't accept that he is an alcoholic.

All 3 of them take a drink. They take us thru the story of the car salesman in such a way we could see how the mind plays a major role in the alcoholic picking back up. The car salesman had no intention of drink, yet "suddenly" a thought comes true. He couldn't see the consequences at that point. He takes a drink and that leads to in comprehensible demoralization.

In those situation where we deliberately go out to get trashed (because we deserve to) the book talks about not paying attention to the consequences. Thats the baffling nature of this disease. The car salesman shows some sign of spiritual malady but the accountant guy shows none. He was only happy go lucky guy, yet they hit the blind spot. Hence the chapters more about alcoholism and there is a solution talk more about the mind rather than the body.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Complicating Quiting Again

Postby 1Peter5:10 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:09 am

One thing is for certain.

Music sounds much better in recovery.
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Re: Complicating Quiting Again

Postby waller_alkie » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:42 am

Just an observation from someone who has been very much in your shoes, 03sonicstang. Happily today I have surrendered to the reality of my disease and the gift of this program for my recovery. It's SO much easier. Sobriety is such a blessing.

I strongly caution against seeking others' opinions as to whether or not you are drinking too much. They are not existing to evaluate how you are living and behaving. They have no idea how much you are actually drinking. Only you know what you are really doing. That's why the decision to identify as an alcoholic lies on us, primarily.

Just my $0.02. Best of luck to you.
The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.
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Re: Complicating Quiting Again

Postby Shoreline » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:17 am

03sonicstang wrote:
Whats funny, friends and family pretty much always say I was good the night before; not out of place and controlled. Sometimes I get a little crap from my wife, but as a norm, others don't see me as a problem drinker. Which just reaffirms, I'm good, keep drinking. But I feel terrible about me and myself.... just hate the idea of quitting again and feeling like an outcast! Not to mention, I've not hit rock bottom again,....really don't want to do that either! This is why I'm writing here right now. I hoping someone, anyone, can share their thoughts. Need others that have gone through it and opinions on sobriety for my again



You say that you have not hit "rock bottom" yet. For some, rock bottom is more of an emotional rock bottom than some tragic event (losing health/family/job/jail time etc). Some are simply sick and tired of being sick and tired. This is kind of an "emotional" rock bottom. In my opinion, waiting to hit rock bottom can be dangerous, because for some, rock bottom is death. You might want to read some of the stories in the back of the Big Book, especially the ones from "They Stopped In Time". Maybe you will find some stories there, that you identify with.
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