Speaking my truth about God... read with caution

For recovery discussion

Speaking my truth about God... read with caution

Postby highcostofliving » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:14 pm

This is sort of an... outlet post, no real message here... but I am constantly hiding my true thoughts behind the Higher Power from AA... even my Sponsor... mostly, I don't want to offend - I can't think of another reason....

I realized last night after meeting with my sponsor, that, I do in fact believe in a Higher Power. I have been struggling with that for a time now, but my thought process has led me down a road to where I don't think I can simply deny it's existence. However, my Higher Power... isn't a good thing. If God or Him or whatever you want to call it, is responsible for all things... created all things, etc.... that means at some point, God thought Cancer was a good idea. Dementia was a good idea. Who care's if I don't know his motives, or what not. God, then, is an asshole. Why would I want someone who clearly has the power to prevent these (an many more) from happening in my life. If a 'friend' of mine did something like say... gave someone a terminal illness intentionally, I wouldn't shrug my shoulders and say, well, I guess I just don't understand what he was thinking, so I'll accept it and let him handle my life decisions... God - to me - is not a caring, loving, being.... it seems more likely he created some things on a whim and then moved on.... the big book seems to preach that once we accept God, it's all good things..... I feel completely disconnected with this.....

I don't know what I'm saying, I'm not intending to offend, but I'm in a pretty tight spot. To recover from my disease, I need to turn my life and will over to God..... but I can't think of a good reason why.... didn't he make me an alcoholic.... that doesn't help me trust Him. I am in pain 24-7... permanently. I HATE when people tell me how lucky I am because I was 1 mm from being paralyzed permanently... that's not LUCK.... havin a plate installed in my spine and living with this pain forever... it's not lucky.... oh, the fact I can walk means God was looking out for me... OR, the same jerk that took my cousin with cancer, gave my mom dementia... also broke my stinking neck....

I'm sorry for such a negative post, but I don't know where to vent this.... I'm stuck right now. I don't see God as my answer. I want to quit AA, I'm tired of it. But I'm also afraid... what if now that I've gone this far, if I go it alone and it doesn't work... how far will the slide be.... could I even crawl back to the meetings if I let go this time?

I guess, what all my time in this program has confirmed for me, is that I do believe in God. But, I'm inclined to hold a grudge against Him.....

Hope this is ok to post, but I've been biting my tongue at meetings and with my sponsor.... we're going to revisit the conception of God we wrote down a few weeks ago next week.... here's what my opening line was "God is unintelligent and uncaring...... " he has to be for any of it to make sense to me... anyways, thanks for reading.

PS today is 100 days.
"The high cost of living, ain't nothin like the cost of living high" - Jamey Johnson
highcostofliving
Forums Enthusiast
 
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:53 am

Re: Speaking my truth about God... read with caution

Postby PaigeB » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:14 pm

I have been where I think you are right now. It is easier to think that no god exists. But I was one of those who the BB says, "can never believe". I just preferred science. A firm Atheist.

Do some research on what people THINK about gods... No human can KNOW god and our ideas change as we grow. I enjoyed reading My Life with the Saints [Fr. James Martin] real people doing real world things. We have the option of thinking that there are MANY gods. Go back in time before Someone thought of the "One Right God" and you will see many, many gods. It is perfectly fine to believe that any one of them has more power than a careless god that created cancer & dementia.

Research a god of earthquakes and you might even find there is also a saint of earthquakes too. The Ocean is surely a Power Greater or maybe a Volcano? There is a line of thinking that Sohpia was with "God" when he created the heavens and earth... What about her? She might be more caring ~ a yin yang/male female HP? There again even the Bible's description "created heaven & earth" can mean the pinpoint in time when this Universe burst forth from the Void... The Void and the "aimlessly rushing nowhere" holds a certain power does it not? That is where I am, The Void, the Entire Universe, every atom that exists on earth... God is everything or he is nothing. If god is everything, than he is also nothing. Don't think about it too much - just get busy living a good (Good or GoOD) life... Good Orderly Direction - which I got in AA with a sponsor & the Steps.

Pick a comforting idea. Then I just had to let it go. Seriously, let it go out there into the Void ~ nothing has to hear me or take care of it. I set it aside. I can always go back to atheism if I need it. I have just set it to the side to have an open mind. I heard someone say the other day that we are all agnostics because no one can ever really Know. I was ashamed to speak my truth coming from atheist to agnostic to believer in god is everything. Some people now know, but... I speak on the last Monday of this month and it might come out of the closet then!

Stop the THINK THINK THINK & Get busy & Keep coming back! :idea: :arrow:
If I'm not able to say how I'm working my program today, then I'm not working my program.
The e-AA Group's 7th Tradition link: www.e-aa.org/group_seventh.php
User avatar
PaigeB
Forums Old Timer
 
Posts: 7450
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:28 pm
Location: Iowa USA

Re: Speaking my truth about God... read with caution

Postby PaigeB » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:21 pm

I'm sorry for such a negative post, but I don't know where to vent this.... I'm stuck right now. I don't see God as my answer. I want to quit AA, I'm tired of it. But I'm also afraid... what if now that I've gone this far, if I go it alone and it doesn't work... how far will the slide be.... could I even crawl back to the meetings if I let go this time?

I guess, what all my time in this program has confirmed for me, is that I do believe in God. But, I'm inclined to hold a grudge against Him.....

Hope this is ok to post, but I've been biting my tongue at meetings and with my sponsor.... we're going to revisit the conception of God we wrote down a few weeks ago next week.... here's what my opening line was "God is unintelligent and uncaring...... " he has to be for any of it to make sense to me... anyways, thanks for reading.

PS today is 100 days.

BTW - Congrats on a magical 100 days! Perhaps this IS a turning point for you!

Stay open & honest with your sponsor at least. AND don't quit AA before the Miracle!
If I'm not able to say how I'm working my program today, then I'm not working my program.
The e-AA Group's 7th Tradition link: www.e-aa.org/group_seventh.php
User avatar
PaigeB
Forums Old Timer
 
Posts: 7450
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:28 pm
Location: Iowa USA

Re: Speaking my truth about God... read with caution

Postby Tosh » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:02 pm

highcostofliving wrote:I realized last night after meeting with my sponsor, that, I do in fact believe in a Higher Power. I have been struggling with that for a time now, but my thought process has led me down a road to where I don't think I can simply deny it's existence. However, my Higher Power... isn't a good thing. If God or Him or whatever you want to call it, is responsible for all things... created all things, etc.... that means at some point, God thought Cancer was a good idea. Dementia was a good idea. Who care's if I don't know his motives, or what not. God, then, is an asshole. Why would I want someone who clearly has the power to prevent these (an many more) from happening in my life.


The King James Bible, Isiah, 45:7 says:

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

Emphasis mine.

I'm either an atheist or non-theist, btw, but I also class myself as spiritual.

The age-old question of 'why bad things happen to good people' has an answer, but the question isn't great. The reality is 'things happen to people' and the 'good' or 'bad' is imputed by our brains.

When I had my rock bottoms, my brain said "this is terrible, I want to die", but now I look upon my rock bottoms as a gift; they forced me to do stuff differently.

There's also a great ted talk where some lady talks about the greatest gift she's ever received (cancer).

My suggestion would be to put all concepts of God to one-side and get going with the 12 Step program. You may find the answers you seek in the later steps of the program.

Or not. Your choice.
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)
User avatar
Tosh
Forums Old Timer
 
Posts: 3717
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 10:43 am

Re: Speaking my truth about God... read with caution

Postby Brock » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:13 pm

Probably the most sensible thing to say is I don’t know why God allows this suffering, but then I see certain suffering, like I had in the last couple years of my alcoholism, turn into a blessing by pushing me to AA. And I don’t believe if I weren’t an alcoholic I would have learned a way of living this cool, so suffering has been a good thing for me. But then I drank by choice and sort of looked for it, and the little child suffering somewhere right now certainly didn’t.

The church folks blame it on Adam and Eve, they ate that forbidden fruit so now we all must suffer, the more knowledgeable church folks and thinkers, point out that they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and were cast out of paradise. And just about every spiritual teacher, from the Pope to Tolle, will preach that dual thinking, always labeling things as good or bad, is the biggest hurdle we face in finding happiness. So if we want back into paradise we stop judging, we accept things being as they are, and this is the practice of many a religion, especially those from the East.

God choose a fellow to represent him called Jesus, and allowed him to suffer like hell, he even shouted ‘why have you deserted me,’ but again the church says it was done to show that after suffering comes great things, because he was raised up to heaven.

I am not too sure about this heaven stuff, but have come to believe that we live more than one life, at least our ‘spirit’ does, and suffering plays a part in developing us to finally reach a stage, where it is no longer necessary for our spirit to live here on earth, then it lives in paradise.

This is all not very convincing to the non believer, but I can only promise that if someone has a spiritual awakening, thanks to AA or anyone else, and follows a spiritual path, things happen in their lives which leaves no doubt whatsoever, that a loving power is helping us, call it what you will, when you feel it you will know it.

Thanks for the post high cost, I think your honesty about your feelings will serve you well in doing this program.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
User avatar
Brock
Forums Coordinator
 
Posts: 3305
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:45 pm

Re: Speaking my truth about God... read with caution

Postby tblue818 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:32 pm

I was once where you are now. I rejected God when I was sixteen and in parochial school, and never found a reason to change my mind. Until AA.

Richard Dawkins' (now quite known) 'God diatribe' was akin to my way of thinking:

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, Igenocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” - The God Delusion

But if you develop Awareness in early sobriety, you just may notice 'coincidences'. That's what I called them when I wrote of one to an AA email list in early sobriety. An AAer named Mike wrote me privately and said, "They are *not* coincidences. Pay attention. You'll see." I pressed him for more information, but he wouldn't say anything else.

If you can leave the door open just a bit and say, "What If...there's More," then perhaps take the time to go through the first 164 pages of the BB and the 12 Steps of the 12 x 12 and write/underline every reference made about the Great Reality Within.

We Agnostics

p. 45 - Well, that's exactly what this book is about. Its main object is to enable you to find a Power greater than yourself which will solve your problem.

p. 85 - If we have carefully followed directions, we have begun to sense the flow of His Spirit into us. To some extent, we have become God-conscious...."

And then, if all goes well, the 5th Step holds the potential for the Moment (12x12). So many call the experience of a rigorously honest 5th Step, "an unburdening" or "relief". Those are Ego's supplied terms. Ask more deeply. "Forgiveness is Divine. It comes from Within."

Group of Drunks worked wonderfully for me as an HP for the first four years (it took a sober bottom for me to become willing to unleash the worst critter shoved into the dungeon of my mind).

Well done on 100 days.

"When you come to the end of all you know to think, say, and do...take a leap of faith and trust that you will either land on solid ground or be given the ability to fly."

"Don't give up before the next miracle happens."

All the best,

Pamela
dos 8/98

Beware of holding onto old ideas too tightly...I was willing to let go just as soon as something better came into view. After all, "My best thinking got me here." <s>
Never let a problem to be solved become more important than a person to be loved.

"Life becomes easier when you learn to accept an apology you never got."
User avatar
tblue818
Forums Enthusiast
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:17 am

Re: Speaking my truth about God... read with caution

Postby highcostofliving » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:46 pm

Thanks for all the responses..... getting different views and opinions and ideas massively helps my mind and thinking on this subject expand.... I think too, I'm operating in a little place of fear.... "what if I can't figure this part of AA out? would that mean I'm doomed?" So maybe putting too much pressure/thought into it... I am working the steps for sure, and reading through the book in detail.... at least I have the willing part down...

thanks again.
"The high cost of living, ain't nothin like the cost of living high" - Jamey Johnson
highcostofliving
Forums Enthusiast
 
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:53 am

Re: Speaking my truth about God... read with caution

Postby positrac » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:26 am

Highcost, how about stop trying to over thinking what doesn't need to be over thought for today. I've said similar stuff in your posts and really at the end of the day it is you and your decisions that will either make you stronger or will break all of the progress you've obtained. We are not in a race to the finish line and we are on the turtle path and instant gratification gets us drunk!

God-------> Good Orderly Direction! That is all the God you need to know today and just focus on staying sober, working the steps, not getting over extended in AA and in life by your handle high cost of living!

My reply is that I want sobriety more than you do right now and in time you'll learn what I am talking about.

I visited Somalia in 1993 and it is a wonderful country with so much to offer and a real tourist trap for paradise on earth! Ha Ha yes it is hell on earth and everyone has a death wish and survival of the fittest. I had been sober about 3.5 years and I am stuck in this hell hole doing parameter patrols at the airport as the airport where NATO was hold up. My side kick and I start taking small arms fire after one of many daily prayers and I was covered taking a smoke break when we had to engage the enemy. That day I killed 3 clowns trying to take me out and I never killed before. I was really good on the target range and was sniper trained and mainly kept the training in back up mode and never figured it would help me except in competitions on a range.

I haven't drank over this and I had to wear a lot of guilt even though I knew I was justified and it was life on its terms that day. God as I understand him was on my side that day and I know it exists and I don't care if someone is or gets offended because they ain't standing in my shoes! I've earned my opinions about my beliefs and I work hard not to impose them on anyone because we all have to figure out what we believe in.

Talk to your sponsor(s) and get back to the basics and it'll be ok and stop over thinking this stuff as it is called stinking thinking. =wink
Work hard, stay positive, and get up early. It's the best part of the day.
George Allen, Sr.
User avatar
positrac
Trusted Servant
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:03 am

Re: Speaking my truth about God... read with caution

Postby avaneesh912 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:03 am

that means at some point, God thought Cancer was a good idea. Dementia was a good idea. Who care's if I don't know his motives, or what not. God, then, is an asshole


This is a typical argument that the mind comes up with when it comes to this topic of existence of this label. Everybody argues for or against. We have been arguing for eons. If we thoroughly understand step one, we will rush to seek the result the big book talks about. Thats something that should arise from within. Until then, we can fill this whole topic next 5 pages what everyone thinks of this and we can lock this up. Go back and read chapter "More about Alcoholism" and see how the alcoholic mind operates. Its fragile, vulnerable, early phase of recovery, see how the mind tricks each one of them to be in the pain. Important statements "failed to enlarge their spiritual life" thats expansion, not instantaneous, but the key is willing to seek.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
User avatar
avaneesh912
Trusted Servant
 
Posts: 4731
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 12:22 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Speaking my truth about God... read with caution

Postby Tosh » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:45 am

positrac wrote:God as I understand him was on my side that day


I've a friend that was turned into pink mist by a road-side IED in Afghanistan.

God wasn't on his side that day.

Maybe you were more deserving of God's grace?
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)
User avatar
Tosh
Forums Old Timer
 
Posts: 3717
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 10:43 am

Re: Speaking my truth about God... read with caution

Postby positrac » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:02 am

Tosh wrote:
positrac wrote:God as I understand him was on my side that day


I've a friend that was turned into pink mist by a road-side IED in Afghanistan.

God wasn't on his side that day.

Maybe you were more deserving of God's grace?

Ah come on that is pure BS because I am merely one of many souls on the earth. How about this one for example, God was with your friend and your friend was at peace knowing he would not have to suffer like a few of my friends did on the bucket list tour of 1993-94. Having to be disabled for life for a cause that made no clear sense because of coward leaders.

At the end of the day Tosh you've been a positive voice to us all and for that I sure can't complain and I'd rather leave it at that.
High cost is in a storm right now and so my points were directed at him as to relax and stop over thinking what if's. I felt that my training had kicked in and I wasn't like the guys who got all chopped up by the locals with a death wish.
Work hard, stay positive, and get up early. It's the best part of the day.
George Allen, Sr.
User avatar
positrac
Trusted Servant
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:03 am

Re: Speaking my truth about God... read with caution

Postby Layne » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:36 am

I do believe in God. But, I'm inclined to hold a grudge against Him.....

I have struggled with thoughts along these same lines. What helped me to move past was deeply exploring the reasons behind my grudge.
Layne
Forums Old Timer
 
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:20 am
Location: British Virgin Islands

Re: Speaking my truth about God... read with caution

Postby tomsteve » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:11 am

the big book seems to preach that once we accept God, it's all good things...

it is quite amazing how people can interpit the BB differently. i dont see the BB saying that, but i do read the BB tell me i can get through many things in life, like a stage 3 metastatic melamona diagnosis 13 months into recovery- so long as i dont go back to playing God and think i know whats best for myself and others.
i got angry with God a few times during the 2 1/2 year battle. had a fear or 2. screamed at the top of my lungs at Him.
and He was still there- forgave me and never turned His back on me.
trudge the road of happy destiny- says right there there can be some tough times in life.

its a little difficult for me to blame God or a HP for all bad things because saying i believe in God or an HP is also saying i believe in satan or a LP.
tomsteve
Forums Contributor
 
Posts: 322
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:25 am

Re: Speaking my truth about God... read with caution

Postby highcostofliving » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:53 pm

Thanks everyone for the posts... I do realize the whole Higher Power thing is a kicked horse... I am definitely overthinking it... but I feel like that's what I need to be doing... how else will I grow sprititually? Should i ignore it again.... I don't know.... I was/am venting on here a bit.... I know the answer is going to be different in all of us. I think it's my struggle right now, as my sponsor and I are spending a lot of time on this... and it seems to be the topic of meetings....

I think the grass roots of my isssue, is I believe in an HP.... I've come to realize, I always have. But I honestly don't think there's an HP that's looking out for us... or even cares.... and I am ok with that.... I feel like that idea, doesn't fit with AA... and that I think is where I'm struggling....

time takes time, right.... I think I have to just find the patience, follow everyone on here''s advice, work with my sponsor, do the steps... and just see what happens. Still sober today, so whatever I'm doing now is working much better than anything I've done before....

Thanks for reading guys!
"The high cost of living, ain't nothin like the cost of living high" - Jamey Johnson
highcostofliving
Forums Enthusiast
 
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:53 am

Re: Speaking my truth about God... read with caution

Postby Layne » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:41 am

I honestly don't think there's an HP that's looking out for us... or even cares.... and I am ok with that.... I feel like that idea, doesn't fit with AA.

Why do you feel that way? Do you believe you know what it is that I believe? Don't let the projections of your mind get in your way and block your spiritual growth.
Layne
Forums Old Timer
 
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:20 am
Location: British Virgin Islands

Next

Return to Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Chelle and 4 guests