race and culure

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Re: race and culure

Postby positrac » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:23 am

cristis wrote:
mule wrote:Brock thank you for the polite welcome. I think what I am curious about is how the recovering community feels about the hot button topics of privilege and intersectionality. For instance some could and will argue that as a white man perhaps I bear some historical resposibility for introducing alcohohol to populations with no history of it.


If you are asking the topics to avoid in AA meetings, this is one of them. It looks like a social topic, but it's a political slogan, propagated by Social Justice Warriors and US Democrats. It's political because its own basis is silly: when you blame someone for something he has no control over it (its generation, previous generation, what his parents or ancestors did), then this is pure discrimination. Me personally I would punish the same way white people who discriminate against blacks, but also the blacks who spread this blunt "white privilege" racist rhetoric.


That is why we keep politics out of our topics as the traditions state as this one from the start had no business being asked because of the slippery natural. And you are right about the agenda part.
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Re: race and culure

Postby jenko » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:47 am

mule wrote:Does recovery take cultural issues into consideration?


The 3rd tradition, I believe, would address the issue of exclusion of certain people because of their culture.

Traditions 2 and 4 can let the group itself determine if a particular cultural leanings are acceptable for the group or not. Most things are fine, as long as they don't affect AA as a whole. For example, some groups choose not to say the Lord's Prayer at closing. The group finds it has too specific of a religious leaning, so they may choose another way to close their meeting.
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Re: race and culure

Postby desypete » Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:44 am

never given this much thought about race in the fellowship
but we have a few black people around our area but not many, its not down to any sort of racism though that much i do know of more for our area there are not many black people who live here
as for trying to blame us whites for corruption of black people there is some truth in that argument
as my girlfriend is Philippine and from a small village that are poor local fishermen and farmer types who grow enough to survive and maybe sell there excess or trade
so its really like a land that time has forgotten
they lead a simple yet very happy life, they dont suffer from depression, yet there poor people, who have hardly anything, they can not afford to go running off to a dr so long as they have plenty to eat there happy and whats more there happy to share there food with all in there hoods
they help each other in so many ways it truly is a marvellous site to see people living this way and should put us all to shame with how we tend to run off to a dr complaining about feeling unable to cope in this world when you look at the suffering of others in 3rd world countries yet they cope and grow and are happy with such little things in life
they certainly have the right way to live in my eyes

now imagine what our west world has to offer them ? money greed envy drink drugs power hate the list is huge of damaging things we have to offer such underdeveloped people
so i can understand the argument of back in time we captured and traded in slaves from these types of cultures
taking people from there own tribes and bringing them over to our lands to serve us

i would hate that to happen to my phillopines girlfriends family as they would lose all that they have in there simple state of life

all that being said
the black people can not carry on blaming us these days for the damage that was done, and the answer for them would be a simple one, they can always go back to where there roots are and start there life again living in tribes etc they dont have to carry on living in our western way of life

when i retire i am planing on going out to my girlfriends home area and living out my days amongst them and there simple way of life although i am western and i certainly will be living near a big town that has western things in it like a mcdonalds etc lol i am not totally wanting to live my life on a desert island just yet lol


another issue i notice in aa is we dont have many deaf drunks either, in our inter group some members have taken sign language classes so we can offer out a sign person for 12th step work should the need arise
but in this day and age not many meetings can cater for deaf people unless they can lip read which is sad really as i am sure there would be many a deaf drunk out there
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Re: race and culure

Postby mule » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:15 pm

A quick glance down the list of topics seem to touch on thornier social issues. Yes we are here to get sober but do we need to live in a bubble to do so?
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Re: race and culure

Postby bbqking » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:42 am

mule wrote:Brock thank you for the polite welcome. I think what I am curious about is how the recovering community feels about the hot button topics of privilege and intersectionality. For instance some could and will argue that as a white man perhaps I bear some historical resposibility for introducing alcohohol to populations with no history of it.


Do you feel personally responsible for historical events? If so you may want to discuss this with your doctor.
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Re: race and culure

Postby ODAAT » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:08 pm

Interesting and productive conversation.

Seems to me that cultural issues cannot be blanket-excluded as outside issues -- if they affect or drive the AA membership, results, or program.

For example, AA shows membership is very predominantly white, at 89%. Blacks comprise only 4% and Hispanics, 3%.

Compare to the general population and the reasonable conclusions can be disturbing.

I go to meetings in a medium to large city. Few Blacks attend, maybe 1- 2%
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Re: race and culure

Postby desypete » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:46 pm

ODAAT wrote:Interesting and productive conversation.

Seems to me that cultural issues cannot be blanket-excluded as outside issues -- if they affect or drive the AA membership, results, or program.

For example, AA shows membership is very predominantly white, at 89%. Blacks comprise only 4% and Hispanics, 3%.

Compare to the general population and the reasonable conclusions can be disturbing.

I go to meetings in a medium to large city. Few Blacks attend, maybe 1- 2%


hang on a min
numbers can always be manipulated and normally are to show what anyone wants them to show

just how many blacks or Hispanics are there living in the country ?
how many whites live in the country ?
if the majority is going to be white then the outcome will always show white more than others

do the same test in africa if they have aa meetings out there and see how many blacks there are compared to whites

i bet you would get the same types of figures except for the majority would be black not white
so what would that say ?
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Re: race and culure

Postby Brock » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:50 am

ODAAT wrote:For example, AA shows membership is very predominantly white, at 89%. Blacks comprise only 4% and Hispanics, 3%.
Compare to the general population and the reasonable conclusions can be disturbing.

Desy said -
just how many blacks or Hispanics are there living in the country ?
how many whites live in the country ?

ODAAT is making a valid point, because without even checking we would know that they have a bigger % of those races in the US population, is it that blacks and hispanics don’t suffer from alcoholism as much as whites, or do they just shun treatment because they feel uncomfortable around a bunch of white folks.

I live in the West Indies, some meetings I may be the only white person, but my home group on Tuesday mornings has a membership almost entirely white, mainly ladies, other groups refer to us as ‘the white people group,’ not in a bad way it’s friendly, it's just the way we talk. Most people think West Indians are all black with African roots, but many islands like the one I live on have as many Indians as blacks, settled here after the abolition of slavery to work in the sugar cane industry. Both my brothers married Indian girls, their kids have a lovely tan color, and alcoholism seems to affect Indians here more than other races, again just by judging from AA attendance.

The race that has it’s own way of doing things is the Chinese, we have many here but not in AA, no vagrants to be seen as well. A Chinese ‘drinking friend’ I had once said that they have associations, where the better off put money to assist those in trouble, as a race they really look after their own, so I guess there are secret Chinese AA groups around as well.

Once AA does it’s duty to make all feel welcome, there is not much else we can do.
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