The First One!

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Re: The First One!

Postby avaneesh912 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:06 am

i realise you struggle with the simplicity of the saying dont pick up the first drink and you can not get drunk


I do get it. If we don't pick up we dont get drunk. The craving doesn't happen until our body ingests some form of alcohol. But what about the obsession? The peculiar mental twists?

So in your own case, you went out right? After how many ever years? Why couldn't you stay away from that 1st drink?

If you read bills story, he knew also that "he cannot have just one drink". Yet he kept drinking. Until his friend showed up at his house and explained him the whole cycle. The mental and physical part.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: The First One!

Postby D'oh » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:02 am

Wow!, Classic AA.

The whole “What came first, the Chicken or the Egg?” What does it matter, on a Sandwich they both taste great with Bacon.

A very Simple Program, for very Complex Thinkers. I love that line, and thanks for this Forum and who ever I am plagiarizing it from.

Dr. Paul O’s (who’s story (my Favorite) has survived 2 Editions, even though the Title changed, again Chicken/Egg) wrote a book “There is more to Quitting Drinking than Quitting Drinking” which is Very True.

Gutter Bravado, pg 509 4th Edition, also sums it up nicely (Sun Day, $20, 22 days of sobriety, Celebration,) “I couldn’t even make 1 day, besides I can drink tomorrow if I wish.”

I guess the whole “Think, Think, Think” slogan and “Keep It Simple” stupid, are way more than a “Go ahead, Back up” thing.

Edit: remove the duplicated lines:
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Re: The First One!

Postby avaneesh912 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:31 am

The whole “What came first, the Chicken or the Egg?” What does it matter, on a Sandwich they both taste great with Bacon.


It does matter. Its the right understanding of the disease propels people to work the steps. Take this S*** with seriousness.

It makes it a big difference when I leave the rooms of AA with the idea that my mind could trick me into taking that first drink than Oh all I have to do is not pick up. There is a psychological component to the disease.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: The First One!

Postby avaneesh912 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:04 am

Wow!, Classic AA.

The whole “What came first, the Chicken or the Egg?” What does it matter, on a Sandwich they both taste great with Bacon.

A very Simple Program, for very Complex Thinkers. I love that line, and thanks for this Forum and who ever I am plagiarizing it from.

Dr. Paul O’s (who’s story (my Favorite) has survived 2 Editions, even though the Title changed, again Chicken/Egg) wrote a book “There is more to Quitting Drinking than Quitting Drinking” which is Very True.

Gutter Bravado, pg 509 4th Edition, also sums it up nicely (Sun Day, $20, 22 days of sobriety, Celebration,) “I couldn’t even make 1 day, besides I can drink tomorrow if I wish.”

I guess the whole “Think, Think, Think” slogan and “Keep It Simple” stupid, are way more than a “Go ahead, Back up” thing.


I see, you are reading the stories instead of the actual recovery part.

Tell me what these 2 segments convey to you?

Give him an account of the struggles you made to stop. Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree.

and this:

Show him, from your own experience, how the queer mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: The First One!

Postby Brock » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:30 am

I believe it matters a great deal. Why else would they use so many of the 164 pages, in which they have to give us the message, with stories to demonstrate what happens to those who decide not to do the work, and just stay away from the first one instead. And mention over and over the powerlessness, reminding us at the end of ‘More About Alcoholism’ - “Once more: The alcoholic at certain times has no effective mental defense against the first drink.” Then in writing about how we should pass the message, as avaneesh mentions they say -
If you are satisfied that he is a real alcoholic, begin to dwell on the hopeless feature of the malady. Show him, from your own experience, how the queer mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power. Don't, at this stage, refer to this book, unless he has seen it and wishes to discuss it.

Yes, don’t even mention the book, how they did things then the person hasn't even been to a meeting yet, and still they say he should be told staying away from the first drink won’t work, at least for any length of time. Now we do things differently, we say go to a meeting, when they get there some clowns say ‘stay away from the first drink, it’s the first one that gets you drunk,’ then hopefully someone who knows better will clean up the mess, and tell them it won’t work for long, do the work or you will drink.
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Re: The First One!

Postby D'oh » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:42 pm

Show him, from your own experience, how the queer mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power.


I have explained my first drink after a long absence.

Postby D'oh » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:07 am

When I slipped, the first one didn't get me falling down stumbling drunk. It more or less opened the door to try it again. Experiments I use to call them.

Well as others before me had warned me about, I was soon worse than where I left off at 21 YO.

Cunning, Baffling, Powerful! Just don't take that first drink. Today, One at a Time.

No Twist, very little Mental thought or reasoning.

My Experience, not what I had read.
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Re: The First One!

Postby Brock » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:50 pm

No Twist, very little Mental thought or reasoning.

Maybe that’s the twist right there, little thought or reasoning, which wouldn’t happen to a person living in the solution. And some of us are merely saying the new person should be informed of that solution ASAP.

Anyone who says - “Just don't take that first drink. Today, One at a Time,” without explaining that it’s a stop gap measure, only to see us through while we do the steps, is doing a great disservice to the AA program.

It seems some believe myself and others who speak against this ‘just don’t take the first drink’ idea, think nobody should be told that. But certainly I for one think it’s a good thing, and I do tell newcomers that, but followed by explaining what they need to do for recovery, as outlined in the literature.
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Re: The First One!

Postby desypete » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:27 pm

i think the problem is with your obsession about the mental twist stage

the problem here is that we all come into aa at different stages of progression, many come to aa now who still have a lot left to lose as the rock bottom has now been raised
which is a good thing in that people dont have suffer but a bad thing when it comes to dealing with real hard core 24 7 drunks

a drunk has to try to sober up first many will need to dry out and combat shakes and other aliments that will have come there way through the drunk abuse the body suffers

some will be lucky enough to go to rehab if they can afford it or have family that will stand by them
but other dont and these guys like me needed to learn how to get past a single day without picking up a drink, how to combat the shakes, how to get up in the morning, how to try to have a shave without cutting myself to death

i honesty dont think many of you here have the first idea of whats its like to be so dependant on booze but then your not at fault if you didnt end up in that condtion
if all your problem was you thought about drink all the time and drank a bit to much when you drank well its a far cry from ending up in a heap with nothing left

like i have said for me the best help i got in aa was that saying dont pick up that first drink
in all my years i could never figure that out
but not picking up the first drink requires action and effort to be able to do somthing other than sit there thinking about drink or that washing machine head as we call it requires action
like cleaning your shoes, going out for a walk, getting to an aa meeting day and night as there is safety there amongst our own kind

the list is endliess of the things we can do in our early days trying to not pick up that first drink

and the beauty of passing on that advice is when you see them come back for more and they boast they havent had a drink today which is just wonderful

i haven't had a drink today either and its been a few days now so it does work, it gives people there lives back if they want it
but then again those who didnt lose it all are not really going to have a clue what i am on about
there heads are just full of books they have read on the subject or watching to many chris r videos as its all they can talk about rather than there own experiences
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Re: The First One!

Postby avaneesh912 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:40 pm

When I slipped, the first one didn't get me falling down stumbling drunk. It more or less opened the door to try it again. Experiments I use to call them.
Well as others before me had warned me about, I was soon worse than where I left off at 21 YO.
Cunning, Baffling, Powerful! Just don't take that first drink. Today, One at a Time.
No Twist, very little Mental thought or reasoning.
My Experience, not what I had read.


Nobody said, the craving should happen immediately. Again, you need to go read the chapter more about alcoholism. It talks about all times of drunks.

All of us felt at times that we were regaining control, but such intervals usually brief were inevitably followed by still less control, which led in time to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization.

In your case, I don't know the situations around which you took a drink after being in AA. The fact is, you took it. Like what the book says, perhaps you felt that you could handle liquor like normal people, just because you were successful after the slip. And then slowly progressed to work stage than before.

When the counselor challenged me to stay off booze for a month, I did, but on the 31st day I went back. Toward the end of the drinking career the binges shrunk. The worse part was being miserable without alcohol. It was realizing the "isms" would lead me back to the alcohol, opened my willingness to work the program.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: The First One!

Postby avaneesh912 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:43 pm

Postby desypete » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:27 pm
i think the problem is with your obsession about the mental twist stage


Didnt you relapse after few years in fellowship? What happened to the "if you dont drink the first one you wont get drink".

I didnt you follow what you say here?
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: The First One!

Postby desypete » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:18 pm

avaneesh912 wrote:
Postby desypete » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:27 pm
i think the problem is with your obsession about the mental twist stage


Didnt you relapse after few years in fellowship? What happened to the "if you dont drink the first one you wont get drink".

I didnt you follow what you say here?


i managed to go 15 years without picking up that first drink
in those 15 years my focus was on making money and providing for my family etc
so my obsession had a focus and yes there were times i was fed up that i couldn't drink more so at xmas times as i really hated new years eve as everyone it seemed to me would be out there having a great time but not me lol

but the point here is i was not a full blown 24 7 drunk then i was merely an obsession type of alcoholic if you want to call it that

but this time around the difference is i know where i went wrong
i left aa i thought i didnt need it anymore in my life that i was recovered
well i wasnt was i as 15 years later i picked up that first drink
but 15 years is a long time without anything aa related or being around any others from fellowship so i really had no chance of not picking up

like i have said when i came back i was a full blown drunken bum
i had to learn how to get through a day without a drink

how would you get me through my first day without me picking up a drink ? shove a book in my face or quote from a book or tell me to watch chris r videos ?

it really doesnt work not with new comers who have ended up with nothing left

if you want to read something read the chapter on working the 12th step its so important in the book that it has a chapter all of its own
read what they did the lengths they went to and the conditions of the people they were trying to help

can you imagine picking up a tramp off the street and trying to get them sober ? taking them into your own home as you know in your heart you had all the answers that would help that person get sober and stay sober

yet no matter what they did they had to face it they couldn't get anyone sober but what it did show was that it kept them sober by doing the work

just how would you go about even trying to get a washed up drunk sober ?

i would put it you that we need to learn how to not pick up that first drink
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Re: The First One!

Postby desypete » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:37 pm

Brock wrote:I believe it matters a great deal. Why else would they use so many of the 164 pages, in which they have to give us the message, with stories to demonstrate what happens to those who decide not to do the work, and just stay away from the first one instead. And mention over and over the powerlessness, reminding us at the end of ‘More About Alcoholism’ - “Once more: The alcoholic at certain times has no effective mental defense against the first drink.” Then in writing about how we should pass the message, as avaneesh mentions they say -
If you are satisfied that he is a real alcoholic, begin to dwell on the hopeless feature of the malady. Show him, from your own experience, how the queer mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power. Don't, at this stage, refer to this book, unless he has seen it and wishes to discuss it.

Yes, don’t even mention the book, how they did things then the person hasn't even been to a meeting yet, and still they say he should be told staying away from the first drink won’t work, at least for any length of time. Now we do things differently, we say go to a meeting, when they get there some clowns say ‘stay away from the first drink, it’s the first one that gets you drunk,’ then hopefully someone who knows better will clean up the mess, and tell them it won’t work for long, do the work or you will drink.


you quote over and over from the book rather than use your own ears and eyes and look around you what do you see ?
if you see an old time aa memebers with 50 years under his belt what would you see ?

i would see an aa memeber who has been sober for 50 years one day a time which is amazing in its own right as how the hell do people get to be sober for that length of time and still be around the fellowship trying to help other new comers to do the same
if we are smart we might listen to how they have done it and who knows they might have something useful that might help us out
if we are smart we might look around the fellowship and see just how many sober people there really are all around the world, all sober today thanks to aa

now aa members come in all shapes and sizes and problems some just can not let go of there old ways they still have to be right and in control based on there gut feelings and they even surround themselves with like minded sufferers who parrot fashion the same stuff
it seems to me they have no real interest in trying to help others get sober as there interest is more trying to get them sober there way and shun or put down others in the fellowship by trying to make out there right a bit like Jehovah witness do who come knocking on your door armed with there watch tower and they believe there path is the right path and all others are wrong

i fail to see the difference between some in aa fellowship who seem hell bent on there path or a Jehovah witness

now have a look at yourself and think what a Jehovah witness does and the reaction they face most of the time from the public ie they get doors slamed in there faces or people run away as quick as they can from what they have to offer as i am sure they are all well meaning people but its the way they go about it which gets the reaction and some in aa go the same way and what is worse is they seem to love being that way

but there i go again =biggrin
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Re: The First One!

Postby Brock » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:14 am

This is called a discussion forum, in a discussion reasonable people read what others say, and they wouldn’t say things like this if they had.
if you want to read something read the chapter on working the 12th step its so important in the book that it has a chapter all of its own

Because right here on this page, both myself and avaneesh have quoted a section from that chapter, it is even the signature below every post by avaneesh -
Show him, from your own experience, how the queer mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power.

Queer mental condition, mental twist, same thing, right there in the chapter you say is so important, and it’s something I have experience with, and this “so important” chapter says we are telling him this up front.
i was fed up that i couldn't drink more so at xmas times as i really hated new years eve as everyone it seemed to me would be out there having a great time but not me lol...but this time around the difference is i know where i went wrong i left aa i thought i didnt need it anymore in my life that i was recovered well i wasnt was i

No you weren’t recovered, and if you had read the book or listened to the right people, you would have known that recovered people don’t feel fed up, and jealous of others who can drink, at Christmas or any other time.
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Re: The First One!

Postby avaneesh912 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:22 am

i managed to go 15 years without picking up that first drink
in those 15 years my focus was on making money and providing for my family etc
so my obsession had a focus and yes there were times i was fed up that i couldn't drink more so at xmas times as i really hated new years eve as everyone it seemed to me would be out there having a great time but not me lol

but the point here is i was not a full blown 24 7 drunk then i was merely an obsession type of alcoholic if you want to call it that

but this time around the difference is i know where i went wrong
i left aa i thought i didnt need it anymore in my life that i was recovered
well i wasnt was i as 15 years later i picked up that first drink


I don't know if others see it or not. I see the mental twist long before you picked up the first. The thought that "you didn't need it anymore in your life" is what I can relate to as "mental twist". And we don't have to be a 24/7 drunk to be an alcoholic. The obsession like Craving doesn't happen right away for all people. Like Dohs' case, it all starts with that subtle insanity/blank spot (as the fred story talks about). The first few weeks, even months, even years we could live in that zone where we think we are in control. Before coming to AA, I did that Friday only beer. It all worked for 7 years but slowly it turned into downward spiral pretty quick.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: The First One!

Postby D'oh » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:02 am

In your case, I don't know the situations around which you took a drink after being in AA. The fact is, you took it. Like what the book says, perhaps you felt that you could handle liquor like normal people, just because you were successful after the slip. And then slowly progressed to work stage than before.
"Twists

The Fact is "I am here, Today. By the Grace of my Higher Power" With possibly a better grasp of my "True Situation"

What ever "Twists" don't really matter. "Utilize not Analyze'

As a member said last week "If I bought 100 Acres of California Coast line 100 years ago as an investment. Would it really matter? Because He would be dead now."
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