Our troubles

For recovery discussion

Our troubles

Postby Swcoding » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:16 pm

"Sometimes they
hurt us, seemingly without provocation, but we invariably
find that at some time in the past we have made decisions
based on self which later placed us in a position to be hurt." Pg 62 What is the context here? Is AA saying that no matter what hurt happens in life we caused it? Let's say I was abandoned as a child and I remember being furious over it. I was hurt, but how did I place myself in that position?
Swcoding
Forums Newcomer
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:36 pm

Re: Our troubles

Postby Brock » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:13 am

Thanks for the topic and question, also welcome here to e-AA.

Right off I would agree that in certain things we couldn't have been responsible, like the example of an abandoned child you gave, it makes no sense. Before that section they give examples, like the story of the actor wanting to run the whole show, they speak about selfishness and self-centeredness, I think it means when we have grown enough that we know that self-centeredness is wrong, but still do it.

This is in step 3, and I find many get stuck on this, and anytime we discuss it here we usually agree, that it's just a decision to move on with the rest of the program. And by doing the remaining steps we can more and more start to practice handing over to our higher power, we see the good results of doing that, in peace of mind and reduction in fear, a much cooler way to live.

In meetings we hear little stories like 3 frogs on a log, one decides to jump in the water, how many frogs are on the log now, it's still 3 because one decided to jump, it doesn’t say he jumped as yet he might wait a long time. So we decided to hand over our lives but we aren't doing it right now, (maybe some people can I never met any), trying maybe to get the idea, but the other steps make it possible to do.

Sorry to ramble on, but I would mention that in #4, I and others I know made the same mistake at first, going back very far in life to find the people I hurt, like the girl on the school bus I used to pull her hair or something like that. To me it's the same principle, in #3 I am not responsible until I grew enough to know better, and also in #4.

At the bottom of 63 we see “next we launched out on a course of vigorous action...” not took our time and fiddled around, launch out like a rocket do #4 & 5 and we start to feel the power of this great program.

Best of luck, and any other points you want to raise here are very welcome.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
User avatar
Brock
Forums Coordinator
 
Posts: 3168
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:45 pm

Re: Our troubles

Postby avaneesh912 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:46 am

No. There are other sick people. Where we are at fault is carrying the resentment. We drain lot of energy. Forgiveness is an option but Our mind endures lot of pain before we look for solution. Great topic.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
User avatar
avaneesh912
Trusted Servant
 
Posts: 4642
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 12:22 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Our troubles

Postby bbqking » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:21 am

avaneesh912 wrote:No. There are other sick people. Where we are at fault is carrying the resentment. We drain lot of energy. Forgiveness is an option but Our mind endures lot of pain before we look for solution. Great topic.


Spot on. ^^

Like when an acquaintance decided to "borrow" my car without my permission (stole it) causing me to miss work. I had some issues with that.

Being honest with yourself is what is important - owning your part and your own bullshit when you did have a part to play in something. Recognizing it when you did can allow growth to occur - provided you're willing to address it.

But being honest works both ways - sometimes people do awful things to others who truly did nothing to deserve it. Common sense.
bbqking
Forums Enthusiast
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 pm

Re: Our troubles

Postby JohnDaniels » Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:31 pm

I knew early on in AA if I was going to have a chance at growing and have emotional maturity in sobriety I would have to admit to MY OWN mistakes, not the mistakes of others. I had a legion of childhood pains too gross to share here but there's nothing to be gained by blaming and rehashing it over and over anyway. It just sucks the air right out of a room. I don't want to relive it over and over like going to a bad movie in my mind. I had to learn how to forgive and shake the dust off my heels and move on. Otherwise I'd have had a very very long childhood.

I believe if a person is to achieve any success in life, mistakes will be made along the way. I believe the worst mistake would be to ignore MY OWN mistakes, then blame others. I can inventory it and forgive or ask for forgiveness. Then healing and growth can begin out of it. There's no growth and no lesson to be learned by blaming.

Staying stuck in the blame game, trying to find fault in other people, organizations whose soul purpose is to save lives, schools, banks, the government, ex wives, bosses, and so on can be painful. Blaming other people and organizations for our lot in life starts out giving the blamer a feeling of superiority. Then becomes a habit, then becomes a painful way of life filled with anger, manipulation, and loneliness. It would also make one big long rut. A rut is like a long grave with the ends kicked out of it.

Alcoholics Anonymous with all it's faults and imperfections, in my opinion is still the best thing on this planet and it works. So, I will not look for faults in this program of living and I will not be manipulated by those who bash it. It saved my life and I am protective of it.
JohnDaniels
Forums Enthusiast
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: Our troubles

Postby Patsy© » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:37 pm

Swcoding wrote:"Sometimes they
hurt us, seemingly without provocation, but we invariably
find that at some time in the past we have made decisions
based on self which later placed us in a position to be hurt." Pg 62 What is the context here? Is AA saying that no matter what hurt happens in life we caused it? Let's say I was abandoned as a child and I remember being furious over it. I was hurt, but how did I place myself in that position?


Hi Swcoding,

If a child is abandoned then of course its not the child's fault nor is it the child's responsibility. Children often carry the pain of what someone else has done to them, be it physically, mentally, emotionally or spiritually. This is what I learned from working, applying and practicing the 12 steps in my own life, that there comes a time, an age when we do become responsible for carrying around the misery and the resentment of what happened to us as children and when we get to be an adult or an age that we can make a choice to get outside professional help and we choose not to, instead choosing to continue to live day to day with the misery and resentment..... that is when we have placed ourselves in a position to be hurt. We hurt ourselves when as adults we do not take responsibility and get the help we need.
Failed 12 Step Call? Not if we walk away sober!
User avatar
Patsy©
Forums Contributor
 
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 5:04 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Our troubles

Postby Mike O » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:08 am

Patsy© wrote:
Swcoding wrote:"Sometimes they
hurt us, seemingly without provocation, but we invariably
find that at some time in the past we have made decisions
based on self which later placed us in a position to be hurt." Pg 62 What is the context here? Is AA saying that no matter what hurt happens in life we caused it? Let's say I was abandoned as a child and I remember being furious over it. I was hurt, but how did I place myself in that position?


Hi Swcoding,

If a child is abandoned then of course its not the child's fault nor is it the child's responsibility. Children often carry the pain of what someone else has done to them, be it physically, mentally, emotionally or spiritually. This is what I learned from working, applying and practicing the 12 steps in my own life, that there comes a time, an age when we do become responsible for carrying around the misery and the resentment of what happened to us as children and when we get to be an adult or an age that we can make a choice to get outside professional help and we choose not to, instead choosing to continue to live day to day with the misery and resentment..... that is when we have placed ourselves in a position to be hurt. We hurt ourselves when as adults we do not take responsibility and get the help we need.


Excellent response.
Mike O
Forums Old Timer
 
Posts: 3311
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:55 am
Location: UK

Re: Our troubles

Postby Cristy99 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:51 am

SWCODING:

Welcome!! Excellent topic!!!

I think the authors were trying to inch us away from the Self-centered victim role that most alcoholics play in the beginnning of recovery. It's very difficult sometimes for us to realize that we could ever do anything wrong...boils down to that stinking ego. They are simply trying to get us thinking that some of the things others do to us may have been provoked by some of the crappy things we have done to them. They are trying to break that hard shell we have and expose the fact to us that we can and do make mistakes. That is very hard to swallow for some of us. There are absolutely times when we don't deserve what we get, but sometimes we do. We are talking about the alcoholic mind here...not the innocent childhood mind. :wink:

Have a beautiful day!!!
"Talk doesn't cook rice."
~ Chinese proverb
Cristy99
Forums Enthusiast
 
Posts: 155
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:36 am
Location: Texas

Re: Our troubles

Postby Noels » Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:24 am

Hi SW and welcome to e-aa :D
That particular piece in the BB had me baffled also since I usually tried to only do good regardless of others behaviour and then ended up getting screwed. For instance - I had a friend -best friend - for 15 years. Loved them to bits. They fell on really hard times due to a gambling addiction. I spoke my husband into lending them money on a pay when/as you can basis or when we need it I'll ask for it. Well. ... a few years down the line nothing was paid and we needed the funds so I asked my friend to start paying back. Our friendship ended that day since somehow she took offence and I was left feeling like the pig in the story.
Since then I've experienced and learned some more about human behaviour and finally against my belief have to admit that there are just some folk who enjoy hurting others.
Knowing that though I still choose to believe in and approach others on the belief that our core is love and there is good in all first. Perhaps just with a tiny bit more caution now than before.
Coming back to your original question and my friend example - her behaviour was 'wrong ' but my part in it was being too trusting and caring in the first place since that 'opened me up ' to get screwed I guess.
Hope this helps.
Regards Noels
There is only Love
Noels
Forums Old Timer
 
Posts: 1247
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:14 am

Re: Our troubles

Postby kdub720 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:08 pm

This is another heavy thinker. We can not control or blame others. Just trust in God. I liked the part about loaning things to friends, when you were too nice and caring and should never have loaned that out. This gets me because I am all into helping friends in need, but when it backfires it hurts double, loosing what you loaned and being hurt by a friend. Just gotta for give and give it up to God. Great series today.
kdub720
Forums Enthusiast
 
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:03 pm

Re: Our troubles

Postby Noels » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:51 pm

Hi Kclub. You sound so lonely and sad to me as if you've been hurt numerous times by the behaviour of others and yes, you are very right - trusting someone and having that trust broken time after time is to me one of the most painful experiences. I mentioned in another post that we somehow have this inborn hope that everyone is good and that it will get better /change at some point.
In this particular instance I went to this lady and her husband when I did my Step 9 amends this year. Not to apologise for the money incident I don't think if I remember correctly but because it bothered me that I was on 'bad terms ' with someone who I used to be very close to. I also behaved pretty badly at many of our social get-togethers so amends in that regard - from my side - had to be made. I wasn't going to take any chances with my sobriety because of hardheadedness so I apologised to every person with whom I thought there was possubly an unresolved issue.
Since then we've ran into each other at the shops I think once and have communicated via phone message a few times.
Our relationship however, will never be the same again. Being hurt by someone very close to you for 15 years continuously does leave a mark.
I'm happy though that I set things right with them relating to my alcoholic behaviour so my soul is clear. But..... the best friend relationship we once had will never be again.
Forgive others not necessarily because they deserve your forgiveness but because you deserve peace. ....
Love and light
Noels
There is only Love
Noels
Forums Old Timer
 
Posts: 1247
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:14 am

Re: Our troubles

Postby positrac » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:37 am

kdub720 wrote: I liked the part about loaning things to friends, when you were too nice and caring and should never have loaned that out. This gets me because I am all into helping friends in need, but when it backfires it hurts double, loosing what you loaned and being hurt by a friend. Just gotta for give and give it up to God. Great series today.


Yes trying to help others as I've learned is one that I have to either help, and or back out as if I do help I should never expect any thanks or repayment. Reminds me of when my email got hacked and it was used to cause a lot of issues. I was speaking with a person about life and sobriety and then like a live electric wire I got a huge jolt of electric shock. So we live and learn and move on in life. I have no expectations with people and especially with additive traits because they burn others without ever knowing they burned them.
You must live your life from beginning to end: No one else can do it for you.
Hopi Proverb
User avatar
positrac
Forums Old Timer
 
Posts: 1134
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:03 am

Re: Our troubles

Postby Patsy© » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:27 am

positrac wrote:
kdub720 wrote: I liked the part about loaning things to friends, when you were too nice and caring and should never have loaned that out. This gets me because I am all into helping friends in need, but when it backfires it hurts double, loosing what you loaned and being hurt by a friend. Just gotta for give and give it up to God. Great series today.


Yes trying to help others as I've learned is one that I have to either help, and or back out as if I do help I should never expect any thanks or repayment. Reminds me of when my email got hacked and it was used to cause a lot of issues. I was speaking with a person about life and sobriety and then like a live electric wire I got a huge jolt of electric shock. So we live and learn and move on in life. I have no expectations with people and especially with additive traits because they burn others without ever knowing they burned them.



How true what you have shared Positrac.....how very true.
Failed 12 Step Call? Not if we walk away sober!
User avatar
Patsy©
Forums Contributor
 
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 5:04 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Our troubles

Postby JohnDaniels » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:38 am

positrac wrote:
kdub720 wrote: I liked the part about loaning things to friends, when you were too nice and caring and should never have loaned that out. This gets me because I am all into helping friends in need, but when it backfires it hurts double, loosing what you loaned and being hurt by a friend. Just gotta for give and give it up to God. Great series today.


Yes trying to help others as I've learned is one that I have to either help, and or back out as if I do help I should never expect any thanks or repayment. Reminds me of when my email got hacked and it was used to cause a lot of issues. I was speaking with a person about life and sobriety and then like a live electric wire I got a huge jolt of electric shock. So we live and learn and move on in life. I have no expectations with people and especially with additive traits because they burn others without ever knowing they burned them.


Yeah she got me too!
JohnDaniels
Forums Enthusiast
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: Our troubles

Postby Noels » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:33 am

quote="positrac"]
kdub720 wrote: I liked the part about loaning things to friends, when you were too nice and caring and should never have loaned that out. This gets me because I am all into helping friends in need, but when it backfires it hurts double, loosing what you loaned and being hurt by a friend. Just gotta for give and give it up to God. Great series today.

Yes trying to help others as I've learned is one that I have to either help, and or back out as if I do help I should never expect any thanks or repayment. Reminds me of when my email got hacked and it was used to cause a lot of issues. I was speaking with a person about life and sobriety and then like a live electric wire I got a huge jolt of electric shock. So we live and learn and move on in life. I have no expectations with people and especially with additive traits because they burn others without ever knowing they burned them.[/quote]

and

JohnDaniels wrote:
positrac wrote:
kdub720 wrote: I liked the part about loaning things to friends, when you were too nice and caring and should never have loaned that out. This gets me because I am all into helping friends in need, but when it backfires it hurts double, loosing what you loaned and being hurt by a friend. Just gotta for give and give it up to God. Great series today.

Yes trying to help others as I've learned is one that I have to either help, and or back out as if I do help I should never expect any thanks or repayment. Reminds me of when my email got hacked and it was used to cause a lot of issues. I was speaking with a person about life and sobriety and then like a live electric wire I got a huge jolt of electric shock. So we live and learn and move on in life. I have no expectations with people and especially with additive traits because they burn others without ever knowing they burned them.


Yeah she got me too!


Who are you guys talking about cause ive been hacked for the last 7 months. Both my phone AND my PC. Just cant seem to get rid of whoever it is. Changed my phone number already also as well as the actual instrument but sjieesh .... this hacker sticks like sh***t on a woolen blanket?

I'm actually now thinking of approaching Cyber Crime or something but don't know whether to approach the RSA crime unit or overseas? What did you do to get rid of this?

Regards
Noels
There is only Love
Noels
Forums Old Timer
 
Posts: 1247
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:14 am

Next

Return to Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests