Utter Inability to leave it alone!

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Re: Utter Inability to leave it alone!

Postby desypete » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:53 pm

ezdzit247 wrote:
I wonder if we share more facts from the book we could help realize the fatal nature of this disease and propel them to do the work?


AA is a program of attraction, not promotion....or propulsion.

Bill W. spent his first months of sobriety trying to "propel" alcoholics into sobriety with that approach. It didn't work. Didn't get even one drunk sober. In fact, he said his approach may have hastened the deaths of several.


i totally agree
people in the rooms of aa had something that i wanted, they were sober and yet i could see they knew what they were talking about when they shared about there own journeys it made me come to see i was not the only one and it was attractive enough for me to want more and to come back again and again,

its like that old story of the wind v the sun and the old guy in the coat, and the sun and the wind had a bet that each one of them could get the coat off the guy
so the wind went first and blew as hard as he could trying to blow the coat of the guy, and all the guy did was to hang on to the coat even more so in the end the wind gave up
then the sun had a go and the sun shone brightly and in no time the guy took the coat off himself

that is the difference between hard core ram the book down new comers and the aa meetings of people who are there just to help if needed, no need to force or scare just be themselves and show it really does work
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Re: Utter Inability to leave it alone!

Postby avaneesh912 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:04 pm

no need to force or scare just be themselves


we are talking about the problem. not about how we are carrying the message. everyone going to have his/her own style.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Utter Inability to leave it alone!

Postby ezdzit247 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:10 pm

i totally agree
people in the rooms of aa had something that i wanted, they were sober and yet i could see they knew what they were talking about when they shared about there own journeys it made me come to see i was not the only one and it was attractive enough for me to want more and to come back again and again,

its like that old story of the wind v the sun and the old guy in the coat, and the sun and the wind had a bet that each one of them could get the coat off the guy
so the wind went first and blew as hard as he could trying to blow the coat of the guy, and all the guy did was to hang on to the coat even more so in the end the wind gave up
then the sun had a go and the sun shone brightly and in no time the guy took the coat off himself

that is the difference between hard core ram the book down new comers and the aa meetings of people who are there just to help if needed, no need to force or scare just be themselves and show it really does work


Totally agree, Pete.

Chapter 7 tells us exactly how to work with newcomers and ramming the Big Book, the Steps or God down a newcomers throat is not part of the recommendations....
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Re: Utter Inability to leave it alone!

Postby Brock » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:35 pm

here you go again quoting from the book not your own personal experience of being a down and out drunken bum

Yes why not, unless you think like so many today, that all we are is our 'story,' that's all we have to offer, also known as drunk-a-log.
that is the difference between hard core ram the book down new comers and the aa meetings of people who are there just to help if needed, no need to force or scare just be themselves and show it really does work

I don't think it's fair to presume that me, or anyone else here, speaks in meetings the way we write on this forum. It's called a discussion forum for a reason, if it was a meeting it would be called a meeting.
Totally agree, Pete.

Chapter 7 tells us exactly how to work with newcomers and ramming the Big Book, the Steps or God down a newcomers throat is not part of the recommendations....

Please keep in mind, that when newcomers come here asking for advise, the same ones being accused of ramming God or literature down their throats, are usually among the first to respond. The record will show that there is no 'ramming' of anything, and that those accusing us of such, are in fact the same ones ramming the dumb 24HR plan down every newcomers throat, without the common sense to at least explain that it's a temporary measure, until the steps are completed. These are the ones who make it harder for the rest of us, who have to clean up their mess and speak about the steps, and the true power of this program.
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Re: Utter Inability to leave it alone!

Postby avaneesh912 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:09 pm

i hope you can go on for the rest of your life as spiritually fit as you believe you are.


Yes, I believe, following the few simple rules laid out in the big book, i know its foreign to you, because you go by what is heard in the rooms, I am confident I will continue to be spiritually fit.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Utter Inability to leave it alone!

Postby avaneesh912 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:32 pm

Chapter 7 tells us exactly how to work with newcomers and ramming the Big Book, the Steps or God down a newcomers throat is not part of the recommendations....


Rule number one, if he person is not willing, move on. So this theory of letting the people goof around not working the 12 steps doesn't work.

Then, the first thing it talks about is, how we approach this guy, the problem statement. We need to show him that our will power is practically non-existent. This is how the book asks us to initiate the dialog with the newcomer.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Utter Inability to leave it alone!

Postby desypete » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:09 am

Brock wrote:
here you go again quoting from the book not your own personal experience of being a down and out drunken bum

Yes why not, unless you think like so many today, that all we are is our 'story,' that's all we have to offer, also known as drunk-a-log.
that is the difference between hard core ram the book down new comers and the aa meetings of people who are there just to help if needed, no need to force or scare just be themselves and show it really does work

I don't think it's fair to presume that me, or anyone else here, speaks in meetings the way we write on this forum. It's called a discussion forum for a reason, if it was a meeting it would be called a meeting.
Totally agree, Pete.

Chapter 7 tells us exactly how to work with newcomers and ramming the Big Book, the Steps or God down a newcomers throat is not part of the recommendations....

Please keep in mind, that when newcomers come here asking for advise, the same ones being accused of ramming God or literature down their throats, are usually among the first to respond. The record will show that there is no 'ramming' of anything, and that those accusing us of such, are in fact the same ones ramming the dumb 24HR plan down every newcomers throat, without the common sense to at least explain that it's a temporary measure, until the steps are completed. These are the ones who make it harder for the rest of us, who have to clean up their mess and speak about the steps, and the true power of this program.


Moderator edit: personal references.
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Re: Utter Inability to leave it alone!

Postby desypete » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:24 am

avaneesh912 wrote:
i hope you can go on for the rest of your life as spiritually fit as you believe you are.


Yes, I believe, following the few simple rules laid out in the big book, i know its foreign to you, because you go by what is heard in the rooms, I am confident I will continue to be spiritually fit.


how would the book be foreign to me ?
i dont need to make refference to the book as i have my own personal experiences to share about, but that doesnt mean i dont have a book or i dont read it as there are many things in the book i love
i also have a bible as i love certain things in there yet i dont believe in a god. the part in Corinthians that explians what love is blew my mind when i read it and it listed things that love and isnt
you can bet i ticked all the things that love isnt when i first read it and today i can tick a few more of what love is thanks to my growth
st francis prayer i read like a set of instructions rather than a prayer that if i try to follow will do me good, in the same way as i read the just for today card and tried to carry out things suggested in there

but the point is i dont hide myself away behind the book as in my view people who have done that have become obsessed to the point they turn against aa the very place they once came to themselves in there hour of need and i really dont like seeing that in the rooms or anywhere as my heart is in aa i believe in aa and all it has to offer including the book, the steps, the meetings, the people

even people like you teach me lessons in aa for example i know i dont want your kind of sobriety. and its clear you dont think much of mine but that is ok like i said people in aa show me and teach me, just by being themselves, and if its attractive i want it if not i reject it.
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Re: Utter Inability to leave it alone!

Postby avaneesh912 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:07 am

An Alcoholic without a glass is a miserable being. And with love and little bit of time spent with them, we can show them this "Design for living" solution rather than "Not drink one day at a time" solution. Thats where the fellowship is failing. The alcoholics are churning out picking up 1, 30, 60, 90 day chips but not working the steps and leaving. Because they are hitting the blank spot. Which you totally don't believe. While the book talks over and over again, an alcoholic cannot depend on his own will power. And they have stories to illustrate that. It talks about the spiritual malady, it talks about the peculiar mental twist and then it talks about the craving piece. But yet, you guys talk about not picking up. I started this thread with the cliche we hear in the meetings. So contrary.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Utter Inability to leave it alone!

Postby PaigeB » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:02 am

Sigh. :arrow:

FEAR AND FAITH

The achievement of freedom from fear is a lifetime undertaking, one that can never be wholly completed. When under heavy attack, acute illness, or in other conditions of serious insecurity, we shall all react to this emotion — well or badly, as the case may be. Only the self-deceived will claim perfect freedom from fear.
— AS BILL SEES IT, p. 263

Today's DR
If I'm not able to say how I'm working my program today, then I'm not working my program.
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Re: Utter Inability to leave it alone!

Postby positrac » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:02 am

Lately in the news some profile people have died due to addictions and they lived this life of excess. So in the end they too couldn't control the urges of excess and addiction. I was able to attend meetings all over the world and the community that serves the people is the example of how to learn sober living. You can't expect passive attitudes to change in order to eradicate the issues of our disease and character defects. Sometimes it takes pressure and tough love on some people like me for example to see the light. Our message is about freeing the disease of alcoholism via steps and working on ourselves. We aren't unique in the area of addiction and once I understand this then the sooner I can find peace and serenity.

Just my take on current events and how it reminds me I am not cured, I am merely without the desire to drink.
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Re: Utter Inability to leave it alone!

Postby Roberth » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:03 pm

What makes you think he pulled the trigger because he was told to not drink even if your arse falls off? If he would have drank he still would of pulled the trigger?


I will never know if he would have or not but I have met a few that that did pull the trigger and lived. They were looking for relief and found it by doing the things they the helps most of us in recovery. They found that power that relieved their alcoholism.
If people want to do that macho stuff that is up to them. Personally I stopped that crap after I did my 4th when I found that the tough guy imagine was just a front hiding that scare little boy that I really was.
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Re: Utter Inability to leave it alone!

Postby ezdzit247 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:24 pm

Brock wrote:Please keep in mind, that when newcomers come here asking for advise, the same ones being accused of ramming God or literature down their throats, are usually among the first to respond. The record will show that there is no 'ramming' of anything, and that those accusing us of such, are in fact the same ones ramming the dumb 24HR plan down every newcomers throat, without the common sense to at least explain that it's a temporary measure, until the steps are completed. These are the ones who make it harder for the rest of us, who have to clean up their mess and speak about the steps, and the true power of this program.


If you have any complaints or concerns about AA's conference approved literature such as pamphlet #1 "This is A.A.... an introduction to the A.A. recovery program",

http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/p-1_thisisaa1.pdf.

I would suggest that rather than wasting your time spewing your angry venom out on me that you write to the GSO literature committee and spew your angry venom out on them. Tell them how dumb they are, how much they lack common sense, how stupid their pamphlet is, and how much work it is for you to have to constantly clean up the mess they made by publishing the "dumb 24HR plan". Please, IF and when, you get a reply from the AA committee, post it online so all of us here at e-aa can read it. I always enjoy a good chuckle....
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Re: Utter Inability to leave it alone!

Postby desypete » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:48 pm

avaneesh912 wrote:An Alcoholic without a glass is a miserable being. And with love and little bit of time spent with them, we can show them this "Design for living" solution rather than "Not drink one day at a time" solution. Thats where the fellowship is failing. The alcoholics are churning out picking up 1, 30, 60, 90 day chips but not working the steps and leaving. Because they are hitting the blank spot. Which you totally don't believe. While the book talks over and over again, an alcoholic cannot depend on his own will power. And they have stories to illustrate that. It talks about the spiritual malady, it talks about the peculiar mental twist and then it talks about the craving piece. But yet, you guys talk about not picking up. I started this thread with the cliche we hear in the meetings. So contrary.


its not aa that is failing its the people themselves, we can tell them anything and everything but one thing we can not do is get anyone else sober, if someone is going to drink there going to drink
we can suggest and explain and share our own personal experiences in the hope that a penny might drop but if there really not willing then nothing no matter what is going to work
i had to be ready and for me it took me a real low bottom to make it so

now i have seen many who come around in small groups who have dedicated there sobriety to the sharing of the book in the rooms and many of them have drank again, so to try to say that because aa memebers try to keep it all simple for new comers with simple advice and that is the reason in your head you think aa is falling is just nonsense

aa is working the whole world over, the success rate is low for any organisation that deals in recovery including aa
the ones who are sober today are the lucky few and that is the hard fact of life but aa is doing a great job thanks to its memebers ready willing and able to help and work there 12th step
it really is a beautiful fellowship but you keep on trying to run it down or trying to blame others for what ?
one thing you have to understand is you do not have the power to save anyone you are not a god, and nothing you will say or do will stop anyone from picking up that first drink, that has to come from within the person if there is a desire to do so

today i still have that desire even more so today as i have so much more to lose, so i keep on coming back as its my medication for my illness

i am so very lucky that i have been around aa members with such long term sobriety who kept coming back and still keep on coming back to be of help to anyone if needed

they are an example for us all really as they keep going keep doing service as there still today so very grateful for what aa has given to them some almost 50 years sober
oh and yes there happy in there hearts not 50 years of missery sitting there fighting an urge to not pick up a drink

you really should try some different meetings from the ones you may attend get with some real home grown aa people and grow to love
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Re: Utter Inability to leave it alone!

Postby positrac » Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:33 am

Some love up on the page above tells me that we are just people and our common bond is sobriety. I believe my success today in AA/Sobriety was I had a boot put up my butt and told that if I didn't get this under control the life as I knew it would get real dim and I'd wither into dust. A bit dramatic and I needed that in order to wise up to reality. I believe sometimes if more people got smacked upside the head then more people would realize that kinder, gentler way has left the room and reality has just arrived. Healthy fear is a good thing and it is a reminder where we came from and I remember my last drink and the pain of life before I took AA and Sobriety serious.

For me I don't lay out Big Book stuff for new people because they will soon get that part if they keep coming back. But I do explain that instant gratification they "thought" they had has been revoked forever and now they have to wait in line just like everyone else because it is life on life's terms.

People have to want to get better and it rests on them 100%. 1/2 measures availed us nothing and that is the message that needs to be related among others.
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