Hearing Gods Will

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Re: Hearing Gods Will

Postby avaneesh912 » Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:09 pm

"Over time, living with one's Own Concept of God's Will, can be Very Dangerous, to one with the Self Centered Mind of an Alcoholic."


Agreed. My routine consist of meditation and chanting. I dont listen to any radio station when I drive, I chant. When I walk the dog I chant. I try to sponsor people. Talk to my sponsor on a regular basis. The meeting at the corrections facility is a very important part of my recovery. I do couple of regular meetings. E-AA is a great avenue for me. I have had great success with people from India. One of them is 4 years sober and has started a recovery program in a remote location in India. Constant touch over whatsapp. Things have changed a lot with internet. I wake up everyday with greetings from this 24 years old from India. So the spectrum has changed.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Hearing Gods Will

Postby Brock » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:25 am

What I am trying to get across, is "Over time, living with one's Own Concept of God's Will, can be Very Dangerous, to one with the Self Centered Mind of an Alcoholic."

How can we say over time this is dangerous, and speak about being self centered, is it that we never loose this self centered attitude, this makes our program look bad. I have quoted it before, to show what the book says, from the bottom of 86 into 87, it quite clearly says - “We are often surprised how the right answers come after we have tried this for a while...we find that our thinking will, as time passes, be more and more on the plane of inspiration. We come to rely upon it.” If we can't get over the self centered mind, we are not practicing the program.
Spiritual Progress, not Spiritual Perfection. God will constantly disclose more to you and to us. We ought to be there to hear it.

It's pretty clever to add the part of being there to hear it, what we disagree on is where there is. You seem stuck on the idea that God's voice will be heard at meetings, (and I don't entirely disagree), but the literature I have doesn’t say anything like that. In fact where it says “God will constantly disclose more to you and to us,” they are talking about your own meditation. I don't do my meditation in meetings.

I keep saying whatever works go for it, but because I turned my back on AA three times over thirty years, and part of the reason was that I was under the mistaken impression, that I would be tied to several meetings a week for life, meetings which at the time I did not enjoy one bit. I therefore believe it is my duty, to continue to tell new members here and elsewhere, that our program depends on maintaining a fit spiritual condition, if some need meetings to do so then go ahead. But for the sake of newcomers who may be put off as I was, you also have a duty to tell them that many members maintain a fit spiritual condition without meetings, even if you say you were not successful at doing so.
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Re: Hearing Gods Will

Postby desypete » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:03 am

there is a dangerous obsession for some in aa about the god thing, there obsession has switched from booze to god and its clear to see in them as its all they go on and on about

its like there trying to force anyone or everyone to get sober there way, and they go to all sorts of lengths to try to prove themselves to be right, they quote passages, or quote other members what they say etc as if its some sort of proof ?
many in aa believe there god has saved them and protected them from all sorts of harm, but they dont seem to realise with that train of thought then there god should of protected us all and saved us all from the pitfalls of alcoholism. ie why should one member get away with drinking and driving and another memeber end up going to prison for it ? the memeber who got spared jail believe god saved him, and the member who ended up going to jail feel like there is nothing there that saved him or her

so like i say some people just get addicted to this god thing they have found and i am happy for them to be that way just so long as they dont try to change aa or the people in aa to there way
as that is what we are all supposed to be changing from is that control freak side of the nature of an alcoholic

i look at aa as a whole entity the spirit of aa and it really is quite flawless, the preamble keeps it that way and if people can addopt there life around the aa preamble they would find a much more peaceful meaningful life
the only problem in aa is the members themselves as there all so very different and attach themselves to different clubs inside of the fellowship, be it big books or steppers or the born again Christians
they all share one thing in common as they all seem to believe there right.

then you have the aa members who do not attach themselves to any other club than aa, they go to the meetings not to preach about there way of doing things, they just go for themselves and to be helpful to others if they can
they have no opinions on outside interests, they are not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organisation or institution they neither endorse of oppose any causes,they do not wish to engage in any controversy, they neither endorses nor opposes any causes

now that is how i want to try to live my life also
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Re: Hearing Gods Will

Postby ezdzit247 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:10 pm

i look at aa as a whole entity the spirit of aa and it really is quite flawless, the preamble keeps it that way and if people can addopt there life around the aa preamble they would find a much more peaceful meaningful life


I totally agree.


"....then you have the aa members who do not attach themselves to any other club than aa, they go to the meetings not to preach about there way of doing things, they just go for themselves and to be helpful to others if they can they have no opinions on outside interests, they are not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organisation or institution they neither endorse of oppose any causes,they do not wish to engage in any controversy, they neither endorses nor opposes any causes

now that is how i want to try to live my life also"


Me too, Pete!
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Re: Hearing Gods Will

Postby D'oh » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:03 pm

86 into 87, it quite clearly says - “We are often surprised how the right answers come after we have tried this for a while...we find that our thinking will, as time passes, be more and more on the plane of inspiration. We come to rely upon it.”


Before that on pg 85 it states "If we have carefully followed directions, we have begun to sense the flow of His Spirit into us. To some extent we have become God-conscious. We have begun to develop this vital sixth sense. But we must go further and that means more action."

How, by our Own Judgements, do we tell Our Will from a Higher Power's? Or worse "Not justify Our Will as a HP's?"

And, where better to practice Step 12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
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Re: Hearing Gods Will

Postby Brock » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:48 am

Before that on pg 85 it states "If we have carefully followed directions, we have begun to sense the flow of His Spirit into us. To some extent we have become God-conscious. We have begun to develop this vital sixth sense. But we must go further and that means more action."

I underlined some words to make a point. If we have begun to sense the flow of His spirit, and begun to develop this sixth sense, and this has made us to an extent God conscious. Then when it says we must go further the question is why, and the obvious answer to me is to increase the extent of our God consciousness, to move forward from begun. There's no point of stopping anything when we have just begun, we won't get results or satisfaction when we do, and what are the benefits of gaining greater God consciousness and sixth sense, they are many, and one is surely to help us with this part -
How, by our Own Judgements, do we tell Our Will from a Higher Power's? Or worse "Not justify Our Will as a HP's?"

Yes it's easy for us to justify things and say that's my HP's instruction, but from the second I even think justification I hold up and examine my motives, because if it were really God's will I would just do it and feel fine doing so. But when that sixth sense kicks in and a little voice is saying, your motives for doing this may be selfish, or connected to any other of your 'defects,' we can stop and reconsider, and look for our wrong motive. Or we can as some here do seek the help of a sponsor, to see if he can find the possible wrong motive. As I have said before, surely we should at least try, even if we say hello sponsor I am thinking of doing so and so, but I think it's a bit selfish, or my ego may be pushing me to do it. He will probably see that we have figured it out for ourselves, because we developed that sixth sense or God consciousness they said we would. To me a good sponsor would be happy, and say you don't seem to need much of my advise any more, a bad sponsor would not be so happy, because he may have lost someone depending on him, a blow to his ego.
And, where better to practice Step 12.

Keep in mind that myself and some others here agree with this 100%, what we speak out against is those who make it look like the meetings are what keeps us happily sober, rather than the spiritual awakening, and these meeting makers make it types, far too often don't look very happily sober.
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Re: Hearing Gods Will

Postby PaigeB » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:51 pm

we speak out against

Where, in our conference approved literature, are we directed or suggested to do this?
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Re: Hearing Gods Will

Postby D'oh » Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:18 pm

I keep saying whatever works go for it, but because I turned my back on AA three times over thirty years, and part of the reason was that I was under the mistaken impression, that I would be tied to several meetings a week for life, meetings which at the time I did not enjoy one bit. I therefore believe it is my duty, to continue to tell new members here and elsewhere, that our program depends on maintaining a fit spiritual condition, if some need meetings to do so then go ahead. But for the sake of newcomers who may be put off as I was, you also have a duty to tell them that many members maintain a fit spiritual condition without meetings, even if you say you were not successful at doing so.


What was the Uncomforting feeling at a Meeting? Was it not a Higher Power's Will that you were there? That it was there? That what was shared needed to be heard, if not by you, but others?

I have NEVER slipped at a Meeting. Even if it just an hour of a Day. I have walked away, bitter and confused, only to be enlightened at a later time.

Keep in mind that myself and some others here agree with this 100%, what we speak out against is those who make it look like the meetings are what keeps us happily sober, rather than the spiritual awakening, and these meeting makers make it types, far too often don't look very happily sober.
This is a strange statement for one saying "You do not need other's to help interrupt God's Will"

Why the need to have "Other's assurance" of what you are saying? Why even be here on this Forum, if one can go it alone with Meditation and Prayer?

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Re: Hearing Gods Will

Postby avaneesh912 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:01 am

we speak out against


Where, in our conference approved literature, are we directed or suggested to do this?


Please dont take a few words and add a comments. Take atleast the entire statement so people get a context of what the other person was trying to say. I think what Brock meant was we 3 part solution Steps, services and unity.
Last edited by avaneesh912 on Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hearing Gods Will

Postby avaneesh912 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:13 am

Why the need to have "Other's assurance" of what you are saying? Why even be here on this Forum, if one can go it alone with Meditation and Prayer?

The Fellowship is Important, not only to Carry the Message.


For me, meditation resolves majority of my conflicts and also allows me to be in a un-comfortable situation if something does happen as I go through the day. Thats GOD working through me. And I do go to meetings but honestly go there to be of help to newcomers. I havent heard anything spectacular in a meeting in a long time. Same old drunk-a-logs without solution, in fact i am seeing a new trend in our home group, which I intend to take it up with the GC, nobody is signing up for meetings and this leads to people with absolutely no solution leading the meeting. The 8pm meetings are like just filled with people there to sign their slips no leadership there either. We may have to shut the shop by 7.30pm. Or look into some other options.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Hearing Gods Will

Postby D'oh » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:00 am

To pause when agitated or doubtful.

Early in recovery I was doing that 10 times a day. Reciting the 3rd Step Prayer in my head. Through time and program, "Intuitive" thoughts and decisions gradually stepped in, and today few things have me pause to remember that "I" am no longer running the show.

I havent heard anything spectacular in a meeting in a long time. Same old drunk-a-logs without solution, in fact i am seeing a new trend in our home group, which I intend to take it up with the GC, nobody is signing up for meetings and this leads to people with absolutely no solution leading the meeting. The 8pm meetings are like just filled with people there to sign their slips no leadership there either. We may have to shut the shop by 7.30pm. Or look into some other options.


It is all "A Higher Power's Will" that you and other's are there at these Meetings. Whether it be Our HP, or someone else's or both. What is done at these Meeting, is up to the Group Conscience, and it's members. But the 5th and 12th Tradition should be in the forefront.

I still recall my first meeting. Scared, shaking, confused, I walked into the smoke filled room to find a room full of Happy, Content people saying "My name is _____ I am an Alcoholic." I instantly had a hope that there was "Life without Alcohol".

Today, to walk into a Meeting full of Glum faces, makes me sad that the same message isn't being carried. But all I can carry is what has been Granted to me, which truly is a gift. That I must giveaway in order to keep the use of.
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Re: Hearing Gods Will

Postby avaneesh912 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:09 am

That I must giveaway in order to keep the use of.


Your idea of giving away is going to meetings? Saturday, I had a watsapp call to a guy in india then a skype call to a guy in london. Then met with a guy one on one with at mcdonalds. Sunday I and my buddy took a meeting to the corrections facility. Its all part of my recovery. Over and about that Meditation is a major part of my recovery.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Hearing Gods Will

Postby Spirit Flower » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:49 am

Your idea of giving away is going to meetings?
Yes yes yes. Because as stated further up the thread, recovered people need to be at the meeting or there is no recovery.
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Re: Hearing Gods Will

Postby PaigeB » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:04 am

avaneesh912 wrote:
we speak out against


Where, in our conference approved literature, are we directed or suggested to do this?


Please dont take a few words and add a comments. Take atleast the entire statement so people get a context of what the other person was trying to say. I think what Brock meant was we 3 part solution Steps, services and unity.

NO THANKS - let's actually talk about what is going on here. No more pussy footing around. We are talking about GOD.

So lets forget who they are and what they "meant" ? ...No. No more and more this board feels like you & Brock WIN

So no - other folks can go back to the top of the page & read what Brock SAID and decide for themselves what was MEANT. Just define the word, AGAINST from american dictionary.... but Brock is not from America. Our Preamble States in part, "does not wish to engage in any controversy; neither endorses nor opposes any causes." But yeah - the Preamble is not in the original Big Book sooo I guess my information is not good unless I get it from a Speaker tape - which was taped at a meeting which is not God sooo...

Earlier in the thread you said "tuned in" and I said "tapped in" and THAT became a point to argue with quotes.... I lose, Do'h too... and now you are questioning what Spirit said.

- that's what's up right? :|

I guess there is no amount of information that can humble those who refuse to listen to arguments with some sort of belligerent denial of the other person's ideas. If we don't agree with Brock's God he will DIE. Because some cultures think that if people don't do things just so.... well then they are not on the "right path". Well, that is NOT what AA says.

What exactly will it take for you two to stop? We all become your students via email or something? If you are SO right, go start your own website and let E-aa go back to sharing a message of inclusivity.
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Re: Hearing Gods Will

Postby Brock » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:12 am

Edit - I didn't see Paige's post when I posted this.
Yes yes yes. Because as stated further up the thread, recovered people need to be at the meeting or there is no recovery.

We all agree with that, and avaneesh even spoke of a matter to take up with his home group. But the good point he was making, is that in this day and age, technology provides other communication such as these forums, he mentioned watsapp and skype as well, he was pointing out that these are also good ways to pass the message. Let's not write about the benefit of seeing people face to face we know that, nobody is saying electronic AA message is better than live, but it is an important tool.

D'oh asked -
Why the need to have "Other's assurance" of what you are saying? Why even be here on this Forum, if one can go it alone with Meditation and Prayer?

I don't need assurance from anyone, and I am here for the same reason as others, to offer my ES & H to others, (12 step), and maybe enjoy a good debate bordering on argument sometimes. And I have been privileged to have some new members PM me for further discussion, more often than not to ask about a controlling sponsor, or the need for constant meetings, since these are two things I speak out against.

Sorry I used those bad words again, Paige asked where in our approved literature it suggests we speak out against things. I don't think it needs to be written down that we can do this, if we don't agree with something we can speak out against it. Or we can overdo and misquote 'live and let live,' and let the poor newcomer believe, that for the rest of his life his goose will be cooked if he can't make meetings. Never mind the literature speaks of people in the 2nd world war, and gives the story of the Indian army officer, specifically to point out that sometimes meetings are not available. And so let those living on the farm or the small island who have no meetings, know that happy sobriety is theirs for the asking, providing they accept that it's a spiritual program, and once they keep spiritually fit, they can live happily sober.
Last edited by Brock on Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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