Hearing Gods Will

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Re: Hearing Gods Will

Postby avaneesh912 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:22 am

But what is Necessary Work?


Its being comfortable with the internal un-manageability as it occurs. If I can't handle it, I am shut of from the sun-light of the spirit. A meeting may be too late. Thats what I am saying. Thats where the HP comes into play.

In your own words you forgot to pause when agitated?

This thought brings us to Step Ten, which suggests we continue to take personal inventory and continue to set right any new mistakes as we go along. We vigorously commenced this way of living as we cleaned up the past. We have entered the world of the Spirit. Our next function is to grow in understanding and effectiveness. This is not an overnight matter. It should continue for our lifetime. Continue to watch for selfishness, dishonesty, resentment, and fear. When these crop up, we ask God at once to remove them. We discuss them with someone immediately and make amends quickly if we have harmed anyone. Then we resolutely turn our thoughts to someone we can help. Love and tolerance of others is our code.

So above is what we are to do during the awakened moment. If you just go by 12 and 12 a nd also if you don't go through the recovery portion of the big book and just read the stories at the back of the book, you and others will be arguing all through our life.



Edit: added the working of 10th step:
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Hearing Gods Will

Postby Brock » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:44 pm

For some, just asking for help in the morning, and giving thanks at night. For others 7 meetings a week for life. Everyone is different.

I agree that everyone is different, but surely nobody will ever argue, that the first way, which is the way more or less that the book says we do it, is the way AA was designed to work, spiritual experience etc. And the other way, depending on meetings, is not what the literature says we should do, whatever works etc is fine, I am not arguing that, (and yes meetings are very important before we do the steps), on this site if you don't cover every possible angle someone will jump on it. But I believe two things are vitally important, firstly the person doing it by the “meetings method,” does not pass that to others as the AA message, and secondly, that person realize that perhaps there is something missing in their program, and seek the answer.
But what is Necessary Work?

I believe, and the books indicate, that this prayer or meditation business is personal to each member, we must find our own way. I never expect others to take my advise on spiritual matters, maybe if I walked on water or such they might, otherwise just speaking about what we found useful is as much as we can do. And one person will say this book by so and so is great, another might try it and say no way, same with spiritual speakers, AA speakers, even food, we humans don't always agree.

When I first came here I was having trouble with prayer first thing in the morning, half asleep I would try saying some prayers, and it seemed a complete waste of time. Someone here said the same happens to him, and so most mornings he just says “thank you,” and gets out of bed, now that works for me as well. But I have heard a sponsor tear into his sponsee, because he said he prayed while lying in bed each morning, 'don't you have any respect, get out of bed and hit your knees' he shouted, sponsors like that I would like to hit somewhere other than the knees, it's personal, and nobody should instruct another on how to connect with their higher power.

For me just fiddling around on you tube listening to various spiritual speakers, some I couldn't stand, but some like Joyce Myer seemed to make more sense, didn't matter if she referred to the bible often, I took what I wanted and so forth, she spoke a lot about being happy and worry free, I wanted that. Outgrew her and moved on to reading (or listening) to Richard Rohr and Tolle mostly now, all free and all good for my taste and where I am spiritually, but may not suit others. What I found, with very little time devoted to reading or listening, is the ability to spend my day 'connected' to, or just being aware of, a great presence whatever I do or wherever I go. And not some stupid punishing presence I need to be scared of, many of us have paid a high price, for being told when we were young, about some God who would punish us if we did wrong.

I just remembered an article from Barefoot Bob's site, on what happened when he asked a good old timer about this, I will end by copying that here.
The way it happened is not all that unusual in A.A. I had showed up for my first speaker meeting. I was a week and a half sober, all spruced up, wearing a clean shirt and a tie, and getting well!. You know how well we get in that first week! I still had a case of the Whips and Jingles, but I was getting well.
There I was in the Friendship Club, sitting in the back row so nobody would see me. This little dried up, disheveled, misfitting clothes little fellow sat down beside me. I kind of scrunched over and out of the corner of mouth, mumbled to the person on the other side, "My God, look at this one, he really needs help."
Much to my chagrin, when it came time to introduce the speaker for the evening, this dried up little fellow was the one who got up and went to the podium. At that time Joe Q. had about 20 years of sobriety. During his pitch something or another got my attention and I started listening. Maybe it was the glitter in his eyes, or the sense of peace and love that emanated from him, I don't know. Anyhow, he ended his pitch with The Touch of the Masters Hand, and it really reached me and I KNEW he had something that I wanted.
You know that I didn't have a lot of courage at that time, and I didn't want anybody to know that I DIDN'T KNOW, so I waited until everybody else had moved away from him, screwed up my courage, and kind of sidled up to him.
He stuck his hand out to me, and asked my name. I blurted out my name, and before I drew another breath said, "I know you've got it, but I don't know what it is you're talking about, this Higher Power thing, can you please define it for me?".
Joe laughed, and with that magnificent grin and eyes full of love said"BOB, FOR THOSE OF US THAT KNOW, NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY. FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DON'T, NO EXPLANATION IS POSSIBLE, AND ONLY A DAMN FOOL WOULD ATTEMPT TO DEFINE IT. I DON'T PROPOSE TO BE A DAMN FOOL, BUT I CAN SHOW YOU HOW TO FIND IT FOR YOURSELF!"
With that Joe reached under the podium and pulled out an old wore out copy of the Big Book. He opened it to page 59 and stuck it under my nose and said "This is how you will find it."
I had to look, of course. That's the page the Steps are on. AND THAT'S THE WAY I FOUND IT!!
Joe's simple statement that I've put in capital letters above, but which Joe said to me in the gentlest of voices is what opened up the door so that I could throw out all of my old ideas that I had picked up from the dumping ground of others (and from my infinite wisdom of KNOWING that I'M RIGHT, that KNOW IT ALL attitude). I could now begin anew in a Lifetime of Sobriety. You see, I knew that I was the damn fool, and that I had failed in ALL my definitions.
Today I know that anytime anyone tries to define "Higher Power" to me, he is a damn fool, and whatever it is that he is trying to define, THAT ISN'T IT. This "Higher Power", My Boss that I work for today, handles things a whole lot bigger and more complex and more wonderful than any human being or group of human beings can even begin to define. All I really KNOW is, "IT LOVES ME and I LOVE IT."
Thanks again, Joe
Love and Peace,
Barefoot

"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
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Re: Hearing Gods Will

Postby JohnDaniels » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:43 pm

kdub720 wrote:Wow. What a great post above. The idea of torturing your self for a re-lapse as if you had a choice is great. As recovering alcoholics we must remember that we are human and do make mistakes. What brings us together is the desire not to drink and the will do better our lives. I love these posts about forgiveness and grace. It truly is a battle and we will stumble and fall, or else it would be easy. I pray everyday that I can make wise decisions, yet it is empowering when you all share stories of the struggle and how you over come them. Thanks for the ongoing Post This is a good one.


Yes I agree kdub.

Your post and the one above it by avaneesh912 both say it well in my opinion.

By the way I just wanted to ad a personal experience. It was with a guy I knew some years ago. He would say quite often "I'm going to drink again some day, just not today". That statement worried me for him, to the point I asked him out for coffee one night after a meeting. I basically told him that I thought he was trying to make a statement based on the slogan "One Day at a Time" and not drinking one day at a time. I explained that his statement concerned me because the words we speak can often be self-fulfilling prophecies. Sad as it was, he eventually drank. It's a long story. Life is no fairytale world. I don't believe it was totally that one liner he used to recite that made him drink. Going back out there to face the dragon has many stages to it. That one liner he used may have been the beginning to slowly turning away from things of the spirit.

I'm not a controlling sponsor who likes to have their ego massaged (I grew thru that in the beginning when I began learning to apply the 12th Step as it is explained, to my life and live it). Nor am I a laid back sponsor with a "eh, what ever" kind of attitude. I love the 12 Step responsibilities in my life and consider it a gift to serve.
I love my life with a passion with all it's pleasures and it's pains and the lessons and the growth. The guys I sponsor usually reflect that positive attitude also by design.

My life is balanced with a mixture of pleasure and pain. I believe it would just be foolish to go around pretending to be "happy happy happy" all the time. It's just not realistic. But I don't go around whining all the time about everything either. Mostly I face and deal with emotional pains in my life in sobriety, sometimes it's big and sometimes it's just one of those times pole vaulting over mouse droppings, and thanks to the teachings of the personal inventory and a daily review at the end of each day, I am able to learn from those experiences, those pains and those pleasures. For me anyway, AA has not taught me to believe life is happy and euphoric 24-7-365. I'd be in for a huge disappointment if I tried to go on that kind of logic or illogic that would be followed by one let down after another. That constant feeling of euphoria is what I was trying to find in my drinking daze. I have seen time after time in my sobriety when I have been going thru some kind of crisis or emotional pain, those have been the times when my telephone rang with a call from someone wanting to meet me at the park or the coffee shop. Then I forgot about my problem and gave of myself. That giving of myself is much more important than getting into all that self centeredness. But that's just my program. It's what works for me.

But I laugh and clown around most of the time. I love to laugh and just absolutely insist on enjoying life. The guys I sponsor and I make a gratitude list each morning and we all email them to each other. It's a great way to stay connected with our little collective and a great way to start the day.
That has come about as a result of my personal growth and development via the 12 Steps and my constant involvement in Step 12 by allowing the 12th Step to live itself out through my life. It works for me so I love sharing it.

I believe that many alcoholics in our drinking daze (days), well, me anyway, lived in a fantasy world. Actually I ought to not include all alcoholics in my views like that at all, because I don't know what others are thinking and feeling. I can only tell my story. However I have a good understanding of the thoughts, the feelings and many of the experiences other alcoholics go through both in their drinking daze and their sobriety. I've held alcoholics in my arms cradling them as babies while they died in my arms in emergency rooms. I know I'm not unique. I know how countless others have had that same experience in our lives during the 12th Step living itself out through our lives. Those are the times when I realize I could never have dealt with that situation if I was simply "Two-Stepping". But to have made the painful yet necessary changes in myself via all the 12 Steps to begin growing up. The 12 Steps have taught me to go thru them one at a time in the order they were given to us. But those guys and gals who died in my arms from alcoholism in emergency rooms, there's also a much higher percentage of alcoholics in my life who have survived those traumas and are living balanced full lives today as the result of AA.

In AA I've learned to accept and face life on life's terms. Some have been some very painful things to face but I didn't run, I didn't hide, and I didn't drink.
With the help of God, AA folks just like you here, I overcame the depression I had in my drinking daze and have become a grateful man. I love to laugh, joke and clown around. Basically I keep my life as simple as I can.
Facing life on life's terms? Oh sometimes I play the fool and I face life on life's terms after I rant and rave a little over some politician, some insurance company policy, or some thing that leaves my wife grinning at me. Like driving along in my truck listening to someone talk on the radio while I say, "Now just LISTEN to that! Can you STAND it? I tell ya baby! That guy's just yankin' my lariat!" Then my wife grins and say's "Well why don't you just change the channel?"
Then we laugh and I say "Wow! What a concept! Hahaha" all done in good fun humor. She pats my arms and say's "You know what you're always telling those guys you sponsor, keep it simple" as she pats my arm and we laugh about the whole thing. One time my sponsor told me "No matter how spiritual we may think we're becoming, we will never rise above human being. And human beings have faults and emotions. Things that bring us back to earth when we are flying along with both feet planted firmly in mid-air. Things that keep us grounded".
So, is that God's Will speaking thru my sponsor or my wife? I don't know. I do know I love my sponsor. I do know I love my wife with all my heart. She is an amazing lady. I do know that in our 37 years of marriage she continues to help me as my constant companion and partner and I continue to help her as her constant companion and partner. We share an intimacy in those thoughts and words we share.
Again I want to reiterate, I love to laugh and clown around most of the time. I love to laugh and absolutely insist on enjoying life. That has come about as part of my personal growth and development via the 12 Steps and my constant involvement in Step 12 by allowing the 12th Step to live itself out through my life. It works for me so I love sharing it.

Peace
Last edited by JohnDaniels on Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hearing Gods Will

Postby D'oh » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:46 pm

But what is Necessary Work?


Its being comfortable with the internal un-manageability as it occurs. If I can't handle it, I am shut of from the sun-light of the spirit. A meeting may be too late. Thats what I am saying. Thats where the HP comes into play.

In your own words you forgot to pause when agitated?


Yes, but "Alcohol is a subtle foe" "Cunning, baffling, powerful"

I have often thought that "How it Works" is cut off at every Meeting. It should continue a little past the A, B, and C's, to include
The first requirement is that we be convinced that any life run on self-will can hardly be a success. On that basis we are almost always in collision with something or somebody, even though our motives are good. Most people try to live by self-propulsion.


Self Will/ Higher Power's Will/ Our interpretation of a HP's Will? Seeing as He doesn't seem to have my Cell number.
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Re: Hearing Gods Will

Postby avaneesh912 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:15 pm

Yes, but "Alcohol is a subtle foe" "Cunning, baffling, powerful"

Your mind is.

Seeing as He doesn't seem to have my Cell number.


I didn't say you will get a call from your HP. But consciousness within will have a sane thought. Thats the 10th step promise.

You are not willing to trust the 10th step promises. Thats what I infer.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Hearing Gods Will

Postby D'oh » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:54 pm

I didn't say you will get a call from your HP. But consciousness within will have a sane thought. Thats the 10th step promise.

You are not willing to trust the 10th step promises. Thats what I infer.


I didn't say I expect a call, nor doing the 11th Step doesn't provide Spiritual Guidance, all I have stated, I get Spiritual Guidance from Other Members also.
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Re: Hearing Gods Will

Postby PaigeB » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:56 am

Seems a good time to lock this thread.

Peace & Love to All.
If I'm not able to say how I'm working my program today, then I'm not working my program.
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