Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby Brock » Mon May 29, 2017 5:18 pm


This does not stipulate, when one becomes "Self Reliant" rather than "Higher Power Reliant?"

Throughout my posts I have agreed with that, our reliance is on a higher power of our choosing, not on self reliance, that's clear from early in the steps. And at the end of step 10 it says we have began to develop this vital sixth sense, but we must go further. This 'sixth sense,' which we better develop by working #11 over our lifetime, is our conscious contact with God. It is by this we shall understand His will for us, not as you have said by “getting grounded by other's views and words.”

So we at least should try to practice understanding His will, without having to ask someone else's opinion, because I really can't see anywhere in the book, where they suggest we might need someone else to determine if we are following our own self centered will, or Gods will. The first paragraph on page 87 speaks about it becoming a working part of the mind, and ends by saying - “We come to rely on it.”
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby avaneesh912 » Mon May 29, 2017 6:07 pm

This does not stipulate, when one becomes "Self Reliant" rather than "Higher Power Reliant?"


You believe that only by going to meetings everyday we are reliant on our higher power. Some disagree. If thats what works for you keep doing it.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby ezdzit247 » Mon May 29, 2017 6:59 pm

"You believe that only by going to meetings everyday we are reliant on our higher power."


No, I don't believe that and I don't know any other AA members who believe that either.

What I do believe is that my sobriety is a miracle, a gift from God, and that I am a very very grateful recovering alcoholic. I also believe that when I attend an AA meeting I am humbling myself and demonstrating my willingness to obey God's will for me--to help the alcoholic who is still suffering--because faith without works is dead.
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby D'oh » Mon May 29, 2017 8:03 pm

What I do believe is that my sobriety is a miracle, a gift from God, and that I am a very very grateful recovering alcoholic. I also believe that when I attend an AA meeting I am humbling myself and demonstrating my willingness to obey God's will for me--to help the alcoholic who is still suffering--because faith without works is dead.


Exactly.

And it is a Gift, that I don't own. I may use it anyway I feel He would have me use it. But it is not mine. I have to Share it with Others, just as Others share it with me.

Our book is meant to be suggestive only. We realize we know only a little.
God will constantly disclose more to you and to us.
Ask Him in your morning meditation what you can do each day for the man who is still sick. The answers will come, if your own house is in order. But obviously you cannot transmit something you haven’t got. See to it that your relationship with Him is right, and great events will come to pass for you and countless others. This is the Great Fact for us.


How shall He
God will constantly disclose more to you and to us.
without contact with Others?
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby Brock » Tue May 30, 2017 5:03 am

How shall He
God will constantly disclose more to you and to us.
without contact with Others?

People seclude themselves in caves and mountain tops, and by being alone they are able to 'communicate' with God, or take a vow of silence and live in a monastery, famous spiritual writers like Thomas Merton. The first woman to write a book in English St. Julian of Norwich, was twenty years in a 'cell' alone before finding those words, which are still studied by many today. The whole point is not to have contact with others, but as Bill said we are not saints, and so don't lock ourselves up for years. It says in step 11, what used to be the hunch or occasional inspiration, gradually becomes a working part of the mind, it's a private one on one which takes some people a long time, our literature says it comes to some slowly, in cases like Bill it came right away.
If that's what works for you keep doing it.

I agree 100%, but still keep in mind the simple directions in 11, 'we relax and take it easy,' the answers will come. And we should not hamper a newcomers chance, of finding the sort of spiritual connection many of us have found, by telling them that God is speaking to them through other members, the book says nothing like that.
I also believe that when I attend an AA meeting I am humbling myself and demonstrating my willingness to obey God's will for me--to help the alcoholic who is still suffering--because faith without works is dead.

We are not talking about whether we should attend meetings or not, we have discussed that many times, everyone agrees with meeting attendance. But some go to do God's will and carry the message as asked to in 12, others seem to go to receive the message, but it's all good once we follow the book.
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby D'oh » Tue May 30, 2017 5:25 am

but still keep in mind the simple directions in 11, 'we relax and take it easy,'


It also states "Be quick to see where Religious People are Right, make use of what they offer"

Most of us "Do not live in Caves". For most of Us, a meeting is just down the street. Might take an hour and a half out of our day. Have proven many time "Of Myself, I am nothing"

Self Reliance was good, but it didn't go far enough.
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby avaneesh912 » Tue May 30, 2017 5:33 am

without contact with Others?


Yes, we need to rely on our higher power. I am not a fan of 12 and 12 but somewhere it talks about people were worried when the 2nd world war broke out and many of the members from AA were deployed but most came out successful. They built a relationship with their higher power. Prayers and Meditation is part of the spiritual tool kit.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby Brock » Tue May 30, 2017 5:48 am

It also states "Be quick to see where Religious People are Right, make use of what they offer"

The words before that talk about helpful books, and your priest, minister, or rabbi, it doesn’t say people at meetings. And when we talk about of myself I am nothing, and self reliance not going far enough, we agree on that completely. What I keep saying is of myself I am nothing therefore I need God, self reliance not enough I need God, if you find God in meetings more power to you, but that's not what the program says.
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby PaigeB » Tue May 30, 2017 9:20 am

In the 1930's there were not a lot of meeting to talk about. Most of the 30's they were "Flying Blind" before they wrote the Big Book, meetings were all they had. I do not think Bill could have imagined that AA would become... what it is today. I think he would have just trusted that what ever HP there was, was also in charge of what this had become.
If I'm not able to say how I'm working my program today, then I'm not working my program.
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby kdub720 » Tue May 30, 2017 10:54 am

I love going through sentences. This is great. I am a history kid, and you must understand the background and time period of the writer. The environment of the writer is key to their message. Great topic and continued sharing.
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby avaneesh912 » Tue May 30, 2017 12:33 pm

But Louis does get to a meeting, does come in contact with other members, Hears the words of others to help on the Journey. For myself, I have a hard enough time interpreting "His Will" and my own "Self Centered Will" without getting grounded by other's views and words.

As for the Words in the Book. Every time I read them, they hold subtly different meanings, possibly from life's path at the time, possibly because of His Message for the time.

I will admit, that I don't read a lot, but the Big Book has held all of the answers I have needed to stay Sober. If I pick it up!


Louis is in a dorm with a couple of new-comers in the sobriety. They go on work detail during week-day. Just gets this 1 meeting we take on Sunday. Rest of the time he is on his own.

I think you answer your own predicament. "If i pick up (the book)". Louis picks up the book. Listens to lot of workshops. Thats what we are trying to say. Meeting alone is NOT the source of being spiritual fitness. I can do lot of work outside. Thursday was the last time I went to a meeting. I was with bunch of family and friends who drink and enjoy companionship last 4 days at a Destin Beach, Fl. I will be going to a meeting today later in the evening. But my praying and meditation part went on during my vacation.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby Brock » Tue May 30, 2017 1:04 pm

This thread will be closed in the not too distant future, since the 5th page is coming to an end. Although we had a few ups and downs and it got heated at times, I wanted to say it's the type of thread I feel we can all learn from.

Especially when people refer to something in the book for clarification, we start quoting things back and forth, and I believe got a better understanding of how various members feel about different aspects of the program. And maybe best of all it should end with everyone understanding each others views, instead of the argument to the end we sometime have, very nice discussion.
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby D'oh » Tue May 30, 2017 4:13 pm

It was a Good Harsh Discussion. (with some reflection of the 12th Tradition's "Principals before Personalities") I have been both "Uncomfortable in my own skin, and also Too Comfortable". That I forgot where it came from. I do not wish to ever go down that path. The Cunning, Baffling, and Powerlessness, never leaves. It is a gift, to be Sober. Never again do I want to take it for Granted.

My Ego, maybe what gets in the way of "Is it Gods Will, or My Own," masked by no outside Inventories for Guidance. But I do believe that I probably would have called someone before taking that First Drink, many years ago, if I had been in Contact with the Fellowship that week, month, year.

K.I.S.S. everyone.
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby avaneesh912 » Tue May 30, 2017 5:55 pm

So, you don't believe whats written on the last paragraph of page 43?
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby D'oh » Tue May 30, 2017 6:58 pm

So, you don't believe whats written on the last paragraph of page 43?


I am not arguing that, but more of where we hear His Message. If God ever called me on the phone, I would probably hang up!
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