Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby D'oh » Tue May 23, 2017 4:10 pm

Wow, another topic degenerated into this. I hope we all take heed of the 12th Tradition.

I will be a "Grateful Bob" at tonight's meeting. Knowing that There is a Solution. found in One Book. Open to anyone's own interpretation.
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby avaneesh912 » Wed May 24, 2017 3:55 am

Louis at the correction camp gets 1 meeting every Sunday. He has been sober 6 years, 2 more years to complete the sentence. We think these facilities should be free of drugs and alcohol. But its the opposite.

He stays connected with his higher power rest of the time. How? By applying the principles of the 12 steps. Yeah he has ups and downs. He gets into self-pity, but he goes back to the book. Listens to the speaker tapes/workshops. I am glad they allow the inmates to have CD players. He is the first one to come to the hall sets up the chairs and spends a few minutes more than others after the meeting.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby avaneesh912 » Wed May 24, 2017 6:49 am

Knowing that There is a Solution. found in One Book. Open to anyone's own interpretation.


This statement is very confusing. A solution. And then open to anyones own interpretation.

Throughout the book there is only ONE message. Clean house, find God and help others.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby PaigeB » Wed May 24, 2017 10:08 am

Open to anyone's own interpretation.

That is why I prefer a sponsor and you tend to refer people to workshops or speaker tapes.

This is LIFE or DEATH. Find a way to understand or die trying.
If I'm not able to say how I'm working my program today, then I'm not working my program.
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby PaigeB » Wed May 24, 2017 10:12 am

We are sure God wants us to be happy, joyous, and free. We cannot subscribe to the belief that this life is a vale of tears, though it once was just that for many of us. But it is clear that we made our own misery. God didn't do it. Avoid then, the deliberate manufacture of misery, but if trouble comes, cheerfully capitalize it as an opportunity to demonstrate His omnipotence.
— ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, p. 133

His omnipotence, or Love or the Power of AA or whatever you understand to be a Higher Power.
If I'm not able to say how I'm working my program today, then I'm not working my program.
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby D'oh » Sat May 27, 2017 8:02 pm

Louis at the correction camp gets 1 meeting every Sunday. He has been sober 6 years, 2 more years to complete the sentence. We think these facilities should be free of drugs and alcohol. But its the opposite.

He stays connected with his higher power rest of the time. How? By applying the principles of the 12 steps. Yeah he has ups and downs. He gets into self-pity, but he goes back to the book. Listens to the speaker tapes/workshops. I am glad they allow the inmates to have CD players. He is the first one to come to the hall sets up the chairs and spends a few minutes more than others after the meeting.


But Louis does get to a meeting, does come in contact with other members, Hears the words of others to help on the Journey. For myself, I have a hard enough time interpreting "His Will" and my own "Self Centered Will" without getting grounded by other's views and words.

As for the Words in the Book. Every time I read them, they hold subtly different meanings, possibly from life's path at the time, possibly because of His Message for the time.

I will admit, that I don't read a lot, but the Big Book has held all of the answers I have needed to stay Sober. If I pick it up!
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby clouds » Sun May 28, 2017 7:03 am

PaigeB wrote:
We are sure God wants us to be happy, joyous, and free. We cannot subscribe to the belief that this life is a vale of tears, though it once was just that for many of us. But it is clear that we made our own misery. God didn't do it. Avoid then, the deliberate manufacture of misery, but if trouble comes, cheerfully capitalize it as an opportunity to demonstrate His omnipotence.
— ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, p. 133

His omnipotence, or Love or the Power of AA or whatever you understand to be a Higher Power.


Here here!
" Burn the idea into the consciousness of every man that he can get well regardless of anyone. The only condition is that he trust in God and clean house." page 98 A.A.
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby PaigeB » Sun May 28, 2017 11:18 am

I am not good a figuring out what is self-will and what is the next right thing. I have a sponsor and good AA friends that will help me if I ask ~ and sometimes even if I don't. But in the end it is my Right and my Responsibility as to what Thoughts I will think and what Actions I will take to keep the Light on in my heart and the poisonous booze away from my lips.
If I'm not able to say how I'm working my program today, then I'm not working my program.
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby Brock » Mon May 29, 2017 9:04 am

For myself, I have a hard enough time interpreting "His Will" and my own "Self Centered Will" without getting grounded by other's views and words.

This is fair enough, providing we don't run off with the idea that this will be true for everybody.

In AA little sayings have been made up and have gained in popularity, similar to 'a person who sponsors himself has a fool for a sponsor.' These sort of things make it seem that nobody is really capable of honest self analysis, and yet throughout the literature we see instructions to honestly analyze out motives and actions. It says in one part that those who don't recover “are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty.” And in the books they don't speak very much about getting the views of others, perhaps this is a modern phenomenon.

I have seen here and heard people say in meetings, so and so happened and I was upset so I asked my sponsor, and he said x and y was my problem. In these cases it seemed the person hadn’t made any effort at self analysis, in one case the sponsor said he was jealous of the person he was upset with, I find it hard to understand why someone can't sit quietly and honestly think through a list of possibilities, is it my ego, am I jealous, is it self pity etc. And if we can't that's OK, but we should be encouraged to learn, and if someone comes to me with a problem I will pry them to offer their own solutions, ask what they think is wrong and maybe offer hints, when they find the answer their eyes light up, and they are more encouraged to try on their own before coming the next time a problem arises. It is easy to get lazy in this or never learn, if someone is always handy and willing to provide what they believe is the answer. I believe that is what the authors were speaking about on page 87, warning that at first we should ask, -
...it is not probable that we are going to be inspired at all times. We might pay for this presumption in all sorts of absurd actions and ideas.

Then when we continue to seek His will for us, rather than always asking someone else we see this -
Nevertheless, we find that our thinking will, as time passes, be more and more on the plane of inspiration. We come to rely upon it.

Then further down the page -
As we go through the day we pause, when agitated or doubtful, and ask for the right thought or action.

And on the last page of the program at 164, it says you will know the answers -
The answers will come, if your own house is in order.

So yes ask for guidance and advise at first, but don't get lazy to the fact, that the program expects us to lean and grow.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby D'oh » Mon May 29, 2017 9:32 am

Prior to that writing is this

It should continue for our lifetime. Continue to watch for selfishness, dishonesty, resentment, and fear. When these crop up, we ask God at once to remove them. We discuss them with someone immediately and make amends quickly if we have harmed anyone.


Or before that

Self-reliance was good as far as it went, but it didn’t go far enough. Some of us once had great self-confidence, but it didn’t fully solve the fear problem, or any other. When it made us cocky, it was worse.


And then of course, what makes the 10th step much different than a day's 5th step?

This is perhaps difficult--especially discussing our defects with another person. We think we have done well enough in admitting these things to ourselves. There is doubt about that. In actual practice, we usually find a solitary self-appraisal insufficient.
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby PaigeB » Mon May 29, 2017 11:44 am

I will ALWAYS need AA more than AA needs me.
If I'm not able to say how I'm working my program today, then I'm not working my program.
The e-AA Group's 7th Tradition link: www.e-aa.org/group_seventh.php
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby Brock » Mon May 29, 2017 12:31 pm

We discuss them with someone immediately and make amends quickly if we have harmed anyone.

My feeling is since the words are one complete sentence, at first we discuss then with someone, and they help us decide if we harmed anyone. So again I believe it's recommended, until such time as we gain more knowledge and establish conscious contact. If I have been in the program long enough I know what to do, and make amends right away if necessary. The words directly before those in the quote are -”Our next function is to grow in understanding and effectiveness. It should continue etc.” We see after this at the end of step 10, they tell us more about the further development, we are still learning the program.
Much has already been said about receiving strength, inspiration, and direction from Him who has all knowledge and power. If we have carefully followed directions, we have begun to sense the flow of His Spirit into us. To some extent we have become God-conscious. We have begun to develop this vital sixth sense. But we must go further and that means more action.

We must go further, we don't stop at #10, or we are in danger of a possible codependent relationship with a sponsor (and meetings) forever.
Self-reliance was good as far as it went, but it didn’t go far enough. Some of us once had great self-confidence, but it didn’t fully solve the fear problem, or any other. When it made us cocky, it was worse.

Yes true, but all over the book we see where our reliance should be, and it's not on other human beings, eg - When we saw others solve their problems by a simple reliance upon the Spirit of the Universe. ...so you must remember that your real reliance is always upon Him.
And then of course, what makes the 10th step much different than a day's 5th step?

But it is, or should be, quite different. It says if we have done harm, we made amends quickly, who would want to speak with someone at the end of the day, what am I going to say, I cussed out so and so but apologized after, it's done! And my experience is quite simply, that if I don't set matters straight when I am wrong, then I loose serenity, the greatest gift of this program. Maybe some like myself put more into step 11 than others, and that's why we don't need human help as much, and that I believe is how the program was designed to work.
Last edited by Brock on Mon May 29, 2017 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby Brock » Mon May 29, 2017 12:42 pm

I will ALWAYS need AA more than AA needs me.

I will always need God more than I need AA, and I will forever be grateful to AA for teaching me this.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby PaigeB » Mon May 29, 2017 12:45 pm

I will always need God more than God needs me.
If I'm not able to say how I'm working my program today, then I'm not working my program.
The e-AA Group's 7th Tradition link: www.e-aa.org/group_seventh.php
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Re: Can I get help interpreting a paragraph?

Postby D'oh » Mon May 29, 2017 4:01 pm

As we go through the day we pause, when agitated or doubtful, and ask for the right thought or action. We constantly remind ourselves we are no longer
running the show, humbly saying to ourselves many times each day “Thy will be done.”
We are then in much less danger of excitement, fear, anger, worry, self-pity, or foolish decisions. We become much more efficient. We do not tire so easily, for we are not burning up energy foolishly as we did when we were trying to arrange life to suit ourselves.
It works--it really does.
We alcoholics are undisciplined. So we let God discipline us in the simple way we have just outlined.
But this is not all. There is action and more action. “Faith without works is dead.”


This does not stipulate, when one becomes "Self Reliant" rather than "Higher Power Reliant?"
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