court cards

For recovery discussion

Re: court cards

Postby Brock » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:39 pm

Welcome to e-AA Seagullgrey, thanks for your contribution on the question of court slips. As you can see it’s a subject folks here are also passionate about, some see not much harm in it, while others like myself would prefer those sent by the courts, be introduced to AA in other ways, which don’t involve mixing with the general membership, and possible anonymity breaking which results. This document in part speaks about holding meetings separately for those sent by the court - http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/mg-05_coopwithcourt.pdf which I feel is the best solution for all concerned.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
User avatar
Brock
Forums Coordinator
 
Posts: 3379
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:45 pm

Re: court cards

Postby D'oh » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:35 pm

Before long the government will want us to remove God from the program and the book etcetera etcetera.


Who is to say, (I look at it this way) That it was not God, handing out the Court Card?

The 3rd Tradition states nothing about an "Honest Desire". Why did the Founding Members leave it out when they wrote most everything else to such perfection?

I have yet to meet anyone that walked through the Doors of AA by accident. If everything was good, I would still be out there. Court is but a symptom.

As I heard tonight, "We can only carry the Message, we cannot carry the Alcoholic."
D'oh
Forums Long Timer
 
Posts: 763
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:51 am

Re: Court Cards

Postby Blue Moon » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:27 pm

Seagullgrey wrote:I think it is reprehensible and a clear violation of about 4 different AA traditions that groups are signing "court slips" for people to attend AA and bring the signatures back to the Probation officer or Judge or whoever.

Which 4 Traditions are those?

It makes AA as a whole an officer/agent of the court.

The group is signing nothing, making no assertion to any court, cannot be summoned or held accountable. Anyone present at the meeting could be signing, doesn't even have to be a member of the group. Some even figure out they never have to turn up at any meeting, they simply have someone sign it.

(IMO where I sobered up in the UK, the Groups more-closely aligned themselves to the probation system, because the groups agreed to hold cards to be given to the probationee - with the notable exception of the group that met in the local probation building, they opted out)

It violates my anonymity every time I go to a meeting and someone signs one of those slips.

Huh? How is your anonymity affected?

It's perhaps worth remembering how AA came to exist. If Roland Hazard had never gone to a court to convince the judge to release Ebby T into his care, Ebby T would never have introduced recovery to Bill W.

So if it wasn't for a court and judge deciding to send someone to recovery instead of jail, AA would not exist.
Ian S
AKA Blue Moon
User avatar
Blue Moon
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3650
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2002 2:01 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: Court Cards

Postby tomsteve » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:56 am

Seagullgrey wrote:I think it is reprehensible and a clear violation of about 4 different AA traditions that groups are signing "court slips" for people to attend AA and bring the signatures back to the Probation officer or Judge or whoever. It makes AA as a whole an officer/agent of the court. It violates my anonymity every time I go to a meeting and someone signs one of those slips. We should not allow the Criminal Justice system to use AA in this fashion. most of those people are not ready to be there anyway and do not want to be there. They go in and out, side talk, and generally disrupt the whole affair. AA is not supposed to be involved in anything political and that is exactly what signing those slips -reporting attendance to the court or some other court appointed custodian of the attendee constitutes. Each group is autonomous but every group is involved so you might as well make it the 3rd tradition. I warn you that allowing AA to used as a pawn of the government in this fashion will soon begin to de-evolve AA as a whole. Before long the government will want us to remove God from the program and the book etcetera etcetera. Mark my words you let government in and they will soon own and control us and Bill's dream, work and passion will disappear into oblivion


wow.
im dam greatful for the nudge from the judge. although i wasnt ready YET, a seed was planted during attendance at those meeting and i knew where to go when i was ready.
which,from what i hear and read, seems to be quite common
aa has been workin with the courts for many,many years. ive only been a round a short time but cant say ive noticed any change. i havent seen court ordered people disrupt meetings very often- maybe 4 times. i have seen,however, AA members disrupt a meeting many times.
tomsteve
Forums Contributor
 
Posts: 290
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:25 am

Previous

Return to Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Chelle and 5 guests