Mental state that precedes a relapse!

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Re: Mental state that precedes a relapse!

Postby ezdzit247 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:38 pm

Brock wrote:
The relapse started some time before the 1st drink seems logical but this information doesn't do me much good because if alcoholics could recognize their mental state that precedes the first drink, nobody would relapse.


Precisely.


Nonsense – Word used by English people to express contempt or disagreement. Moderator edit

No, the only people who will not recognize when these qualities are slipping away, are those who never acquired them in the first place.


Dry drunk syndrome is the pathological mental state that leads most sober alcoholics back to picking up that first drink again and dry drunks generally have no awareness of what's happening to them unless something or someone is able to intervene, they drink again or they survive a suicide attempt. A dry drunk is like the fabled frog relaxing in a pot of slowly heating water. He doesn't notice the changes in the rising temperature or try to jump out of the pot before the water boils.
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Re: Mental state that precedes a relapse!

Postby Brock » Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:34 am

Dry drunk syndrome is the pathological mental state that leads most sober alcoholics back to picking up that first drink again…

EZ quoted the last line of my post to support her dry drunk theory, but in the first paragraph I clearly indicate it's recovered alcoholics I was talking about, this is what I said with a little highlight this time -
Throughout our literature we see promises and indicators of how we will feel after we recover, we were encouraged by these to do the work required, and use them to encourage others, and now we will turn around and say that we can't even recognize when we are no longer on the broad highway.

'Dry drunks' are people who have not done the work required for the type of sobriety AA speaks about, and their mental state is certain to lead to very unhappy lives and probable relapse.
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Re: Mental state that precedes a relapse!

Postby RosieF » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:13 pm

any strong emotion leading to stress and anxiety which is followed by desperate need to disassociate myself from people and feelings - this is what will drive me to pick up.
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Re: Mental state that precedes a relapse!

Postby tomsteve » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:12 am

Reborn wrote:

So the guy who has been sober off alcohol for 5 years and drugs for 1 has been sober for just that one year. I can't believe no one talked about the program of action laid out for us in the Big Book. I would've told this dude to stop blaming meetings and people in them and look at the causes and conditions of this depression. Folks who think meetings are their salvation have it wrong...the program of action in the 12 steps is our salvation. I go to alot of meetings where there is talk of doom and gloom...but I continue to share the SOLUTION...because that is what I'm there to do. If your life is a S*** storm close your mouth.


when I got into AA, this was the message that helped get my head out of my arse- the message that grabbed my attention and had depth and weight.
today, when I start complaining about people,places, and things and start blaming them for my mental state, my sponsor and those that care enough about me give me the message this way still- they call me out on my BS.

meeting makers make meetings.


the message goes to meetings.
the mess goes to my sponsor and others outside of meetings.
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Re: Mental state that precedes a relapse!

Postby Noels » Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:32 am

meeting makers make meetings.

:D :D :D tom :D perhaps you'd like to rephrase as it's pretty clear meeting makers make meetings :D :D :D unless meeting makers bake cakes :D :D :D
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Re: Mental state that precedes a relapse!

Postby PaigeB » Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:25 am

LOL

It really is an old saying... I don't hear it much anymore though... Meeting makers make it.

It is short for "make it in sobriety".... Saying, If you go to meetings you will get sober and stay sober.

I have heard of many many people who have made it that way, though I cannot vouch for their contentedness. I personally think people who have done the 12 Steps need to make it to meetings to continue to grow in their spiritual life ~ personally, I don't have that many great ideas and depend on hearing a variety of people talk to keep me inspired on prayer & meditation. Plus, it might help a newcomer if I am in a meeting.
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Re: Mental state that precedes a relapse!

Postby Brock » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:21 pm

any strong emotion leading to stress and anxiety which is followed by desperate need to disassociate myself from people and feelings - this is what will drive me to pick up.

Yes this is true, but we have a program that if followed properly, no amount of stress and anxiety would cause us to have this desperate need. In fact we shouldn't get the stress or anxiety in the first place, we have tools to handle any situation with a level of serenity.
meeting makers make meetings.

I hope folks understand that is exactly what tomsteve meant to say, and is used by some of us to counter the other message of meeting makers making it, something we think is false, but all opinions are respected.
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Re: Mental state that precedes a relapse!

Postby ezdzit247 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:51 pm

It really is an old saying... I don't hear it much anymore though... Meeting makers make it.


"Meeting makers make it" is a really old saying. It probably comes from so many relapsers returning to meetings and sharing that one of the first things they stopped doing before picking up that first drink again was they slacked off or stopped going to meetings. Another version of this saying is

"People who don't go to meetings don't get to hear what happens to people who don't go to A.A. meetings."
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Re: Mental state that precedes a relapse!

Postby Brock » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:21 pm

"People who don't go to meetings don't get to hear what happens to people who don't go to A.A. meetings."

I believe this is one of those circular discussion topics, because I could easily say another version of this saying is
People who go to meetings don't hear what happens to those people who live happily without meetings.

And I don't think we are talking about not going to meetings at all, the saying 'meeting makers make it' is only objected to by some like myself, because those using it are often ones who believe that warming the chairs day in day out is what will keep them sober, and choose to do that instead of the twelve steps.

Also, in discussing the mental state before relapse, we may find that the person started slipping long before they stopped attending meetings. If after doing the steps, attending meetings was all that was required to keep us on course, nobody might relapse among those with access to meetings, and all those in various parts of the world without access would. This is a spiritual program, maintained by spiritual practice, if some find meetings spiritually uplifting good for them, I don't, but it's a good avenue to pass the message and contribute to our step twelve obligations.
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Re: Mental state that precedes a relapse!

Postby tomsteve » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:17 pm

ive heard ofen people that make meetings say," i relapsed."
ive heard uncounted people that make meetings,have worked the steps, and practice the principles in all their affairs celebrate an unbelievable amount of years of recovery.
the bb even says " A much more important demonstration of our principles lies before us in our respective homes, occupations and affairs. All of us spend much of our spare time in the sort of effort which we are going to describe. "

people can get addicted to meetings start living a fear based program- thinking that if they dont attend meetings, they will drink.and some blame not making meetings the reason they drank.
i was really surprised to hear a man who is looked up to at a local meeting say," i was rather off yesterday and couldnt figure out why. then i realized i hadnt been to a meeting."
thats not the recovery i want.
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Re: Mental state that precedes a relapse!

Postby ezdzit247 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:18 pm

People who go to meetings don't hear what happens to those people who live happily without meetings.


Maybe we don't hear about them in meetings, but way too often we do get to read about their suicides, funerals, car accidents, arrests for DUI, hospitalizations, etc. in the local newspapers--way way too often for me.

Also, in discussing the mental state before relapse, we may find that the person started slipping long before they stopped attending meetings.


Sometimes. Dry drunk symptoms generally begin with what the BB calls feelings of restlessness, irritability, discontentment and evolve slowly in their intensity over time until they become unbearable. Other times, relapses happen very quickly, after the sudden death of loved one or some other traumatic event that simply overwhelms the alcoholic's mental, emotional and/or spiritual resources. In either case, if the AA member has built a strong support network within his or her AA fellowship and continues to maintain those relationships by going to meetings, he or she has a much better chance of eventually snapping out of a dry drunk or surviving a sudden traumatic experience without drinking again. That's why meeting makers make it.
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Re: Mental state that precedes a relapse!

Postby Reborn » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:10 pm

Meeting makers may make it for a while but step takers get well. I go to meetings because I absolutely enjoy doing so. "Frequent contact with newcomers and with each other is the bright spot of our lives." Nothing makes me happier then passing what I have learned to a newcomer....that is the point here isn't it? To help the next suffering alcoholic...and by doing so it helps to enlarge and enrich our spiritual lives? If you have had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps and you're not working with new people shame on you...you can't keep it if you don't give it away.
We have recovered, and have been given the power to help others. BB pg 132
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Re: Mental state that precedes a relapse!

Postby Brock » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:32 am

Other times, relapses happen very quickly, after the sudden death of loved one or some other traumatic event that simply overwhelms the alcoholic's mental, emotional and/or spiritual resources.

That was already covered earlier yesterday, if your spiritual resources are so meager that you fall apart in times of trouble, then you don't have the type of spirituality the program promises. Either you haven't maintained and grown your spiritual awakening, or never had one, because you haven't done the steps or don't believe in God.
...if the AA member has built a strong support network within his or her AA fellowship and continues to maintain those relationships by going to meetings…

Right there is where I believe we seem to go wrong in AA today, by believing the group is our 'support,' everybody seems to want some kind of emotional support not just alcoholics. The idea of “emotional support pets” is popular in the US, people wearing their emotions on their sleeve, and coming to the meetings to speak about them, instead of passing the solution to those who need it.

Also we have an active thread here from someone seeking help who has no meetings in their area, some here are indicating they have no hope. Thankfully others are saying meetings are not essential, including one post this morning from an old timer who never went to a live meeting.

Again people looking to humans for support, instead of looking for it where the literature suggests, is at the root of any weakness we see in today's AA. It's also the basis by which some try to justify bringing non alcoholics in, under the guise of support, because they look on it as an emotional support group, rather than a group of alcoholics who have found the solution and are happy to pass it on.
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Re: Mental state that precedes a relapse!

Postby PaigeB » Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:27 am

who never went to a live meeting

Just not my experience... I am absolutely sure it is possible!
...people looking to humans for support, instead of looking for it where the literature suggests (an HP)

It never worked for me until I got to AA and for me that meant physically getting to AA. I couldn't do it on my own & the book says that over and over. Of course in person was readily available to me in my city & I started that before I knew about online AA. If I had to seek out a loners letter writing program or Grapevine ("our meeting in print") reading daily system like our forebearers often did, then I likely would have sought that out ~ or died. Then finding a letter in the mailbox would have been the bright spot in my day. We are meant to get together somehow.
... alcoholics who have found the solution and are happy to pass it on.

WHY NOT seek them out whenever possible? I want what they have and I go so I can get it from them. Maybe I give something while I am there too. Now I don't mean 3 times a day. But I AM HAPPY to seek them out 3 times a week AND daily online. I get all I can get. The more I nourish my soul the more I grow and the stronger I am.

I fear that telling someone to go ahead and skip out on meeting because it is "possible" might set them up to fail.

I AM SAYING: If you can get to a meeting then get to one or a few a week. You don't have to do this alone. But if it appears that you are cut off and you must do it alone consider those 2 guys who started this thing. They really went to any length to get it and to get together. And that was BEFORE they wrote the Steps.
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Re: Mental state that precedes a relapse!

Postby avaneesh912 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:25 am

Again people looking to humans for support, instead of looking for it where the literature suggests, is at the root of any weakness we see in today's AA


Right on. While the book talks about reliance must come upon the individuals higher power, the fellowship is wearing away from those concepts. Yes, initially its all good, but pretty soon, the individual must start relying upon this power. If you look at the stories in the "pioneer segments" early on it was about working the steps and then working with others. You will see the shift in the stories that are being added now.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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