"Sober Since I Woke Up This Morning"...

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Re: "Sober Since I Woke Up This Morning"...

Postby PaigeB » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:30 am

Today, we just ask the newcomer to not take a drink no matter what and go to 90 more meetings in 90 days. Imagine the number of seconds in-between for the "queer mental twist to work".

By "we" you mean people in your face-to-face area, right? Here at e-aa we usually always advise getting a sponsor and working the Steps of this program, just like in my f2f area. In fact a gal last night said her sponsor had her reading some other book and they would get to the Steps as soon as she learned to love herself. There were audible mumblings from the group. After the meeting, several women went up to her. I told her the Steps saved my life, no matter how inefficiently I might have done them. Since I drove her home, I took her "through Steps 1, 2 & 3 in less than 20 minutes" and told her to practice that everyday before coffee. Of course she has the phone numbers of 50 or more women, she has made connections and has rides to meetings everyday. She has been to treatment a few times, but not this time (where 90 in 90 comes from) but we just say go to a lot of meetings and importantly pick a Home Group where you will do service work.

She promised to come back and see us again next week too. I figured I'd call her tomorrow, just to chat. :wink:
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Re: "Sober Since I Woke Up This Morning"...

Postby Noels » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:56 pm

:lol: learning to love oneself takes a while :lol: what a daft sponsor :lol: my apologies. I just couldn't help myself :lol:
Through working the steps we learn to love ourselves so much quicker so she had some sort of idea. Now she must just do it the quicker way.
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Re: "Sober Since I Woke Up This Morning"...

Postby Db1105 » Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:00 pm

leng12 wrote:Since I came into AA last year I've heard the above about six times. These people seem to have at least 25+ years sobriety. They also seem to have mastered the ODAAT concept and realise the past is gone.

Tell me more about these individuals? Are you one of them?

Thanks.


Tough to make a comment or judgement not being at the meeting, knowing the individuals, the context, or Their experience, strength, and hope.
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Re: "Sober Since I Woke Up This Morning"...

Postby Tosh » Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:20 am

ezdzit247 wrote:
"I think it's a bit daft and it's kinda focusing on the 'wrong thing'..."


Okay.

If the present, i.e. this day, this hour, this moment, is the "wrong thing" to focus on, what's the "right thing" to focus on? Yesterday? Tomorrow?

:wink:


Focusing on 'this moment' isn't something that can always be forced and it's often unobtainable if you're - for example - full of anxiety and fear.

I means, seriously, if that were the case the answer to all our problems would be to just 'focus on the moment'.

Even in traditional Buddhism where 'focusing on the moment' might be emphasised (particularly in Zen), that would have to be backed up by stuff like living an ethical life. It's very difficult - if not impossible - to 'focus on the moment' when you're frightened the tax man is going to knock on your door, or the police are looking for you.

My suggestion is to focus on the program; take the actions - and 'present moment awareness' will take care of itself, without any effort.
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)
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Re: "Sober Since I Woke Up This Morning"...

Postby Tosh » Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:24 am

Noels wrote::lol: learning to love oneself takes a while :lol: what a daft sponsor :lol: my apologies. I just couldn't help myself :lol:
Through working the steps we learn to love ourselves so much quicker so she had some sort of idea. Now she must just do it the quicker way.


Agree; 'loving yourself' arises - without any effort - as a result of taking the actions described in our program. It's not really something you can learn, like out of a book; it's not an intellectual kind of learning.

Again - like present moment awareness (focusing on the moment) - it's not something we DO, it's something that happens as a result of something(s) we do.

It's like the obsession to drink - we can't force it away, or think it away - it's something that is 'removed' as a result of the actions we take.
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)
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Re: "Sober Since I Woke Up This Morning"...

Postby Feeya » Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:34 am

Tosh wrote:My suggestion is to focus on the program; take the actions - and 'present moment awareness' will take care of itself, without any effort.


To me, staying in the moment is actually ALL about focusing on the Programm, BUT (to me) present moment awareness does not take care of itself, in fact, if I don't repeatedly remind myself to stay in the moment I forget. And if I forget to stay in the Moment I am not able to do stepwork, because my mind is anywhere but where it needs to be.

The thought of having to stay sober for the rest of my life scares me, because I don't yet have the tools to live a happy and fulfilled life, I just got sober and there are a lot of things still to be adressed.
I am working on it, by working the steps, by attending meetings, by staying in touch, but if I would not remind myself to 'just not drink for today' I would be right back out there drinking.
I think the 24 hour plan is great for newcomers, because it doesn't scare them off. It is a simple idea: 'Just for today', wich sounds so much easier to do then: 'for the rest of your life'.

Thank you guys for the input on this topic.
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Re: "Sober Since I Woke Up This Morning"...

Postby ezdzit247 » Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:32 am

Feeya wrote:
Tosh wrote:My suggestion is to focus on the program; take the actions - and 'present moment awareness' will take care of itself, without any effort.


To me, staying in the moment is actually ALL about focusing on the Programm, BUT (to me) present moment awareness does not take care of itself, in fact, if I don't repeatedly remind myself to stay in the moment I forget. And if I forget to stay in the Moment I am not able to do stepwork, because my mind is anywhere but where it needs to be.

The thought of having to stay sober for the rest of my life scares me, because I don't yet have the tools to live a happy and fulfilled life, I just got sober and there are a lot of things still to be adressed.
I am working on it, by working the steps, by attending meetings, by staying in touch, but if I would not remind myself to 'just not drink for today' I would be right back out there drinking.
I think the 24 hour plan is great for newcomers, because it doesn't scare them off. It is a simple idea: 'Just for today', wich sounds so much easier to do then: 'for the rest of your life'.

Thank you guys for the input on this topic.
Feeya


I totally agree on all points.
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Re: "Sober Since I Woke Up This Morning"...

Postby Brock » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:05 pm

I think the 24 hour plan is great for newcomers, because it doesn't scare them off. It is a simple idea: 'Just for today', which sounds so much easier to do than: 'for the rest of your life'.

In my opinion this is absolutely correct, and I don't think anyone would disagree. What we do disagree with are those who speak about it, and leave out those important words “is great for newcomers,” they may agree now, but experience shows they will continue to leave out that part, in fact they make it look like you will do this for life. Experience has shown that once the work is done we will not think about drinking, the book says the problem is removed it does not exist for us.

Further it says “We will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it.” And as Tosh says above many other things happen as well, starting to love yourself, finding that we no longer regret the past or worry excessively about the future, basically we start living one day at a time. The whole problem comes about from some folks taking what is clearly a message about living one day at a time, and spoiling it by adding 'staying sober one day at a time.'
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
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Re: "Sober Since I Woke Up This Morning"...

Postby Noels » Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:00 pm

Hallllooooo Tosh :lol: was wondering where you were. How you matey? I'm just teasing you with the "matey". Its too cute - a word I never hear here in RSA - you know, like foreigners like our RSA accent whereas I personally think it really sounds sick!

Jaaaaaa ... I don't completely agree with like present moment awareness (focusing on the moment) - it's not something we DO, it's something that happens as a result of something(s) we do.
but I don't completely disagree either. its a 50/50 to me. When I started my spiritual journey many many moons ago I did some stuff, also became constantly aware and conscious of my thoughts and actions and eventually the being present in the moment became an automatic thing. YET. even there is a difference. day to day conscious being present in the moment is completely different to BEING PRESENT IN THE MOMENT. When the latter there is absolutely no thought, no concept of time, nothing whatsoever that distract or disturb. Its just a feeling of being. Of oneness.

Anyways, I'm getting side tracked.

have an awesome evening and don't mind me. Had a really hard day since 8 this morning til .... its now 11pm and I'm stopping working now for the first (and last) time today.

Chat again tomorrow.

mwah xxx
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Re: "Sober Since I Woke Up This Morning"...

Postby D'oh » Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:55 pm

In my opinion this is absolutely correct, and I don't think anyone would disagree. What we do disagree with are those who speak about it, and leave out those important words “is great for newcomers,” they may agree now, but experience shows they will continue to leave out that part, in fact they make it look like you will do this for life. Experience has shown that once the work is done we will not think about drinking, the book says the problem is removed it does not exist for us.

Further it says “We will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it.”


There lies the whole problem. Without Daily Maintenance of our Spiritual Condition, we are all just 1 drink away from a Drunk. The Old Timer or New Comer. An Old Timer once told me that he treats Meeting like a Tank of fuel. It is our choice whether you want to keep it topped up, or run on empty in danger of running out.

So it is One's choice. I prefer to keep it topped up. After running once before.
We will find that this has happened automatically.
I call that a gift, which if not maintained, I am in danger of losing if I believe I own any part in it.
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Re: "Sober Since I Woke Up This Morning"...

Postby RosieF » Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:29 pm

I know an oldtimer who always shares that he still takes antabuse every single day - is that good sobriety / spiritual recovery?
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Re: "Sober Since I Woke Up This Morning"...

Postby Brock » Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:19 pm

It is our choice whether you want to keep it topped up, or run on empty in danger of running out.

Yes of course we would agree with this. I personally don't find meetings help me keep it topped up, but if others do that's fine. I look at it not that I am maintaining a spiritual condition to stay sober, because the book says the problem does not exist for us, (the drink problem that is). But for me many other problems have disappeared as well, just as the book says they would. When I feel these other problems creeping back in, my life starts getting crappy, irritable and discontent, I don't feel to drink but I get back on the path spiritually quick sharp, because I like life that way. So I have never felt in danger of the tank running out, because anytime it's not pretty full I feel crappy, I like this part from 'As Bill Sees It' -
We of AA obey spiritual principles, at first because we must, then because we ought to, and ultimately because we love the kind of life such obedience brings. 


Rosie asked -
I know an oldtimer who always shares that he still takes antabuse every single day - is that good sobriety / spiritual recovery?

I guess she knows the answer and it's one of those 'rhetorical' questions, but although I have never heard something as alarming as this, I have heard a fair share of comments from people who should know better. Some of us here try to empathize that the message must have a heaping dose of hope, and that is why we come out in numbers against sayings like the title here, sober since we woke up. And those who would leave a new person feeling that AA is some sort of slippery slope, rather than the broad highway we know it to be.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
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Re: "Sober Since I Woke Up This Morning"...

Postby D'oh » Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:30 pm

Pg.100

Both You and the New Man must walk day by day in the path of Spiritual Progress


pg.99

Let the alcoholic continue his program day by day
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Re: "Sober Since I Woke Up This Morning"...

Postby avaneesh912 » Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:58 pm

I know an oldtimer who always shares that he still takes antabuse every single day - is that good sobriety / spiritual recovery?


You work the 12 steps, we don't have to rely on these fear based solutions.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: "Sober Since I Woke Up This Morning"...

Postby ezdzit247 » Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:18 pm

D'oh wrote:Pg.100

Both You and the New Man must walk day by day in the path of Spiritual Progress


pg.99

Let the alcoholic continue his program day by day



In the "Twelve Concepts", p. 40, 'One day at a time', (or 'living in the now') is described as a 'valuable principle' which 'refers to our mental and emotional lives'. We must stay in the day emotionally and 'not foolishly repine over the past nor wishfully daydream about the future'. Works for me!
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