HYPER CONSERVATIVE OLD TIMERS - PART 2

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Re: HYPER CONSERVATIVE OLD TIMERS - PART 2

Postby ezdzit247 » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:53 pm

ann2 wrote:....Not a big deal is it?....


Censorship is a big deal. It is an especially "big deal" in an internet forum which describes and promotes itself as an "AA group", not only because the founders of this program envisioned AA as a self governing benign anarchy, but because censorship per se is the historical weapon of choice used by governments, corporations, organizations, religions, cults, etc. for stifling discussions which may lead to, ironically enough.....anarchy.

In order to avoid the "chilling effect" of censorship on discussions, most internet forums apply censorship lightly, impersonally and objectively using automated word-sensitive programs designed to alert and refuse submission of posts which contain certain words--words which any reasonable person would consider vulgar, profane, or offensive. When censorship is applied in a heavy-handed, subjective and arbitrary way by live monitors after a submission is posted, not just to words judged by the reasonable person standard, but to any word or idea which happens to offend the personal bias of any particular "monitor" on any particular day, that kind of censorship tends to have a very "chilling effect" on not just the "offending" posters but all other forum posters as well, especially newcomers to AA.
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Re: HYPER CONSERVATIVE OLD TIMERS - PART 2

Postby Spirit Flower » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:00 pm

Calm down and not blow things out of proportion. Read and think before reply. Page 5 has been reached so this thread will be locked soon.
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Re: HYPER CONSERVATIVE OLD TIMERS - PART 2

Postby Patsy© » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:08 pm

Calm down and not blow things out of proportion. Read and think before reply. Page 5 has been reached so this thread will be locked soon.


Hi Spirit Flower,

I don't see anyone who is upset or blowing things out of proportion. What I am reading was a very thoughtful reply. What part of the post are you referring to that was blown out of proportion and not a thoughtful response?
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Re: HYPER CONSERVATIVE OLD TIMERS - PART 2

Postby ezdzit247 » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:42 pm

Reborn wrote:
ezdzit247 wrote:Hi Reborn

I had read one of your last posts on this thread last night and thought your comments explaining where you were coming from were very interesting. I was surprised and disappointed that one of the e-aa moderators arbitrarily deleted them. I thought your questions asking me where I was coming from demonstrated a sincere effort to try to understand my viewpoint and I was impressed. I understand how passionate you feel about this particular topic and offer my kudos on your maturity for not engaging in ad hominem personal attacks.


Thank you EZ...I'm passionate about recovery period. I will never forget how I felt and how terrible my life was when I got here. AA is not a game to me...I have a deep love/respect for this program and for those who have kicked the rocks out of the way for me..including you :wink: ...even though we disagree on just about everything...you are sober and have been for many years...gives me hope. I don't agree with the moderators deleting my posts(DON'T THEY KNOW WHO I AM :lol: )...seriously speaking though I think there is some value in some of these heated debates..I will do my best in the future to try and rein it in...no promises...progress not perfection :D


LOL....I share your passion about recovery period and I too will never forget what it was like, what happened, and what it's like for me now, or the old timers who kicked the "rocks" out of the way for me. I owe them a debt I can never really repay for making it possible for me, a female drunk, to join AA and find freedom from the bondage of alcoholism.

Disagrement per se is not a bad thing and most times it's a good thing. Both of my heros, hyper conservative William F Buckley Jr. and ultra liberal John Kenneth Galbraith, became and remained close friends even though they disagreed on almost everything. Most of AA's founders disagreed with each other on many issues, including this topic, but AA survived and thrived despite these disagreements....or maybe even because of them. I like the way AA group came together over the issue of allowing atheists to be AA members. The method for conflict resolution in that fight was someone simply asking WWJD. Works for me.... :wink:
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Re: HYPER CONSERVATIVE OLD TIMERS - PART 2

Postby Brock » Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:48 pm

Yesterday I asked my fellow moderators here if we could consider having a separate forum section, with a name like 'oldtimers discussion.' My idea was that topics which might contain lively discussion or long quotes, could be either started in this section, or alternatively if started in another moved there rather than be deleted.

As Patsy indicated members here can choose what to read, unlike a live group this one usually has several conversations going on at the same time. My idea was dismissed out of hand without discussion, the comments of a few members in this thread, leads me to believe that it is an idea the membership might endorse and appreciate, so it is something I may pursue further.
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Re: HYPER CONSERVATIVE OLD TIMERS - PART 2

Postby Patsy© » Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:16 pm

Brock wrote:Yesterday I asked my fellow moderators here if we could consider having a separate forum section, with a name like 'oldtimers discussion.' My idea was that topics which might contain lively discussion or long quotes, could be either started in this section, or alternatively if started in another moved there rather than be deleted.

As Patsy indicated members here can choose what to read, unlike a live group this one usually has several conversations going on at the same time. My idea was dismissed out of hand without discussion, the comments of a few members in this thread, leads me to believe that it is an idea the membership might endorse and appreciate, so it is something I may pursue further.


Brock, you have a fabulous idea! I am not sure why it was dismissed out of hand and without discussion....that makes no sense to me. I would endorse the idea highly and I would also appreciate it....

Thank you Brock and please pursue your wonderful idea further!

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Re: HYPER CONSERVATIVE OLD TIMERS - PART 2

Postby D'oh » Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:16 pm

Brock wrote:Yesterday I asked my fellow moderators here if we could consider having a separate forum section, with a name like 'oldtimers discussion.' My idea was that topics which might contain lively discussion or long quotes, could be either started in this section, or alternatively if started in another moved there rather than be deleted.

As Patsy indicated members here can choose what to read, unlike a live group this one usually has several conversations going on at the same time. My idea was dismissed out of hand without discussion, the comments of a few members in this thread, leads me to believe that it is an idea the membership might endorse and appreciate, so it is something I may pursue further.

Does that not in it's self, contradict one whole half of this debate. "Our common welfare should come first, personal recovery depends on AA "Unity"?" Why we have had so many pages of AA is not a place for an Addict. Young/Old, Newbie/Oldtimer, Business person/Labourer. Man/Women, or even Using with a desire to stop/Sober? Are we not all equal in the eyes of our Higher Power?
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Re: HYPER CONSERVATIVE OLD TIMERS - PART 2

Postby Patsy© » Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:28 pm

Does that not in it's self, contradict one whole half of this debate. "Our common welfare should come first, personal recovery depends on AA "Unity"?" Why we have had so many pages of AA is not a place for an Addict. Young/Old, Newbie/Oldtimer, Business person/Labourer. Man/Women, or even Using with a desire to stop/Sober? Are we not all equal in the eyes of our Higher Power?


No, of course it does not contradict one whole half of this debate! Much the same as a YP Groups, does not contradict an Old Timers Group. Personal recovery does depends on AA Unity and that is not in jeopardy at all.

Why is there not a place for an Addict? Because this is Alcoholics Anonymous not Narcotics Anonymous, its that simple!

Study the Traditions of both 12 Step Programs and you will have the answer. Or you can read what I just private messaged you and you will have an answer....if an answer is truly what you are looking for?
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Re: HYPER CONSERVATIVE OLD TIMERS - PART 2

Postby D'oh » Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:26 pm

Or you can read what I just private messaged you and you will have an answer....if an answer is truly what you are looking for?

Is it the secret handshake to enter a Old Timer Forum?

If it is the Tradition's, I have read them and yes I understand them. In fact some even look to me for guidance with them, although I am not sure why recently.

I just don't see the unity of walking out of a meeting, what does this say to the Dually Addicted, or the New Comer, that is not sure if they fit in at all. When The ONLY requirement for membership is a desire to Stop Drinking?

Or is it the so called Recovered Alcoholic, that is using Prescribed Meds to control Anxiety, claiming they are thoroughly practicing the principals in all their affairs?
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Re: HYPER CONSERVATIVE OLD TIMERS - PART 2

Postby Patsy© » Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:38 pm

If it is the Tradition's, I have read them and yes I understand them. In fact some even look to me for guidance with them, although I am not sure why recently.


Its been my experience that when AA members have read those Traditions and AA members understand them......they actually put them into ACTION.
So, I will simply agree to disagree with you....and I am sure why!
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Re: HYPER CONSERVATIVE OLD TIMERS - PART 2

Postby ezdzit247 » Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:39 pm

Patsy© wrote:
Why is there not a place for an Addict? Because this is Alcoholics Anonymous not Narcotics Anonymous, its that simple!

Study the Traditions of both 12 Step Programs and you will have the answer. Or you can read what I just private messaged you and you will have an answer....if an answer is truly what you are looking for?


Please clarify your use of term "addict" and a description of what you believe constitutes an "addict". Maybe we're all really on the same page here and having a problem with semantics.

My ESH is that I've never met an "addict" who isn't also an "alcoholic" as well, i.e. "addicts" cannot drink like normal people. Regardless of whether or not an "addict" cops to their drug problem and/or is still in denial about their drink problem, if they have even the slightest shred of a desire to remain sober, i.e alcohol free, don't these "addicts" qualify as members of AA according to our Traditions?
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Re: HYPER CONSERVATIVE OLD TIMERS - PART 2

Postby ezdzit247 » Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:56 pm

Brock & Patsy

The e-aa forums already has the "Golden Years" forum for senior citizen AA members which presumably includes old timers.
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Re: HYPER CONSERVATIVE OLD TIMERS - PART 2

Postby Patsy© » Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:02 pm

Ez... I will send you via Private Message the exact same thing that I sent to D'oh, please read it. Its an eye opening piece that will hopefully help you to realize that what I, you, d'oh or any other person thinks..... Doesn't Matter!

The issue isn't about what term I use, or you use, or anyone else uses. Each 12 Step Program has their own Primary Purpose for a vital reason.....and I don't get to change that Primary Purpose, and you don't get to change that Primary Purpose and D'oh doesn't get to change that Primary Purpose....... because its what holds each 12 Step Program together, in Unity, Service and Recovery. And it doesn't matter what I think, you think or D'oh thinks.
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Re: HYPER CONSERVATIVE OLD TIMERS - PART 2

Postby Patsy© » Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:06 pm

ezdzit247 wrote:Brock & Patsy

The e-aa forums already has the "Golden Years" forum for senior citizen AA members which presumably includes old timers.


Ez.... Please tell me that you are kidding! Please tell me that you know that not all Old Timers are Senior Citizens....and that not all Senior Citizens are Old Timers......... Please!!

Sometimes I worry about you Ez! lol
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Re: HYPER CONSERVATIVE OLD TIMERS - PART 2

Postby tyg » Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:23 pm

I found nothing is perfect, even in AA. One thing I've learned and have not seen it fail yet, is that AA works when we work it and doesn't when we don't. When a person is entirely ready to take certain steps and follow a few simple rules, there is always help and a recovered alcoholic to show them how. Those who suffer from alcoholism get well with this 12 Step program.


Well Folks, we have reached 5 pages. Per Forum policy, it's time to lock this one up.
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