Spiritus Contra Spiritum

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Re: Spiritus Contra Spiritum

Postby Noels » Fri May 13, 2016 12:34 pm

Halloo :D the only thing that comes to my mind when I think of the word 'dark ' is that light trumps dark - example - when a room is dark and I switch on the light that room can never be dark again unless I switch off the light. Dark can not enter that room ever - totally impossible - whilst that light is on. Conclusion - dark can never trump light.
Paige I have no idea how jazz hands look but it sounds good :D and here I would've used a thumbs up smilie also :D can't you put a suggestion for us to the moderatorsender or techies or whoever for some more smilies pleeease?
Have a lekke evening and chat again soon :D
Mwah xxx
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Re: Spiritus Contra Spiritum

Postby Brock » Fri May 13, 2016 12:40 pm

This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. (John 3:19)
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
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Re: Spiritus Contra Spiritum

Postby ezdzit247 » Fri May 13, 2016 12:44 pm

PaigeB wrote:Oh I like root word definitions! Not that I agree with them all, but they are immensely interesting.
In Conclusion
Our efforts to understand spirituality will be trumped by our experiences of spirituality if we are following spiritual directions.... Since paradox is often as close as we'll get to describing the spiritual, I leave you with my favorite bit of Latin wisdom:
Lux Umbra Dei (Light is the Shadow of God)

Understanding trumped by experience... this is not a knowledge program, but an action program! Even though this letter is written according to Hazelton treatment director, we know that "action program" is in the Big Book.

I have heard something to the effect of "dark is not a thing in and of itself, but rather a mere description of the lack of light"

Let there be light! (Sorry off topic.)


I really really liked this statement:

Our efforts to understand spirituality will be trumped by our experiences of spirituality if we are following spiritual directions....


And I agree with you that AA is an action program, not a knowledge program. For me, the 12 Steps work as a gnostic path but not as a some kind of dogmatic "paint-by-number" cognitive behavioral therapy.

For me, "Lux Umbra Dei" (Light is the Shadow of God) is similar to Paul's statement about spiritual knowledge: "For now, we see through a glass darkly...." It's a humble reminder not to get too hung up on thinking I know it all because I've found a little bit of light that in reality is just a shadow.
“To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.” -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Re: Spiritus Contra Spiritum

Postby ezdzit247 » Fri May 13, 2016 1:15 pm

Here's the poem entitled "Lux Umbra Dei":

LUX UMBRA DEI

WHERE shadowy wreaths of floating vapour ’bide,
Buried in floods of unapproachëd light,
In clouds of silence folded out of sight,
Eternal wisdom doth her treasures hide;
And whoso with rash hand would draw aside
Her veil, and read her laws, his vain and slight
And human mind is crushed, and dazzled quite
By lightning flash and thunder rolling wide.
O thou invisible Sun, who from our gaze,
In that abyss of light no eye hath scann’d,
That glory veilest with thine own bright rays,
Shine thou on me where poor and blind I stand,
And let my dark night blossom to thy praise,—
I know thee most when least I understand.

By Giambattista Marino (1569–1625), translated by Baroness von Gilsa
“To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.” -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Re: Spiritus Contra Spiritum

Postby PaigeB » Fri May 13, 2016 11:16 pm

can't you put a suggestion for us to the moderatorsender or techies or whoever for some more smilies pleeease?

I have asked and was told it was possible to do it - and easy enough that I could do it... but I am not a techy - in act I fear techyness stuff! So I couldn't do the changes.

Maybe the next Coordinator will be able to do it. Ask again in September!
If I'm not able to say how I'm working my program today, then I'm not working my program.
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Re: Spiritus Contra Spiritum

Postby Sleddog75 » Sat May 14, 2016 11:00 am

I was thinking about darkness being a color. But in science it's stated the "absence of light" so darkness cannot penetrate light. However, the light can leave and the darkness takes its place. Way cool replies all of them!
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Re: Spiritus Contra Spiritum

Postby Lali » Sat May 14, 2016 7:04 pm

I'm still without any smilies at all. A few people were able to get them back for a short period of time. I felt like my right arm had been cut off (LOL!) but I'm pretty used to it now. I still have :)!
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Re: Spiritus Contra Spiritum

Postby PaigeB » Sat May 14, 2016 9:12 pm

:D
:)
:(
:o
:shock:
:?
8)
:lol:
:x
:P
:oops:
:cry:
:evil:
:twisted:
:roll:
:wink:
:!:
:?:
:idea:
:arrow:
:|
:mrgreen:

Can you copy and paste them into a word document?
(Sorry for high-jacking the thread...)
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Re: Spiritus Contra Spiritum

Postby Noels » Sun May 15, 2016 1:44 am

Good morning beautiful people :D bright and sunny here at the moment although the weather people predicted 90 percent rain :D that shows me that our Creator have an awesome sense of humour :D by allowing the 'learned folks to be right sometimes and now and then putting them back in their place cause who are they to 'predict ' mother nature anyways? :lol:
Paige, I have this feeling that Karl can fix our problems with the smilies . Does any moderator want to ask him for us maybe pretty please?
And you can't 'go ' in September my friend . (Sad smilie) we love you and will miss you. I'm being selfish now I know but you're on the ball girl! So nope, my vote is against you taking a break :cry: (he hehe no rest allowed for you. Very selfish of me indeed :oops: )
Mwah xxx
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Re: Spiritus Contra Spiritum

Postby Lost&Found » Sun May 15, 2016 5:36 am

What an excellent discussion. Thank you.
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Re: Spiritus Contra Spiritum

Postby Troy M. » Sun May 15, 2016 6:05 am

Thank you all for this discussion! Dissecting words without impugning the meanings of those who use such words! My short (7 months) experience matches the sense of this thread - my spiritual experience has overcome the alcohol.
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Re: Spiritus Contra Spiritum

Postby Noels » Wed May 18, 2016 12:34 pm

Sleddog75 wrote: the light can leave and the darkness takes its place.

:lol: I'm speaking literally now as we have more than our fair share of " loadshedding " here which is very simply - nooooooo electricity :D it does have a double meaning though ....... what we do here when the light leaves ....... we light a candle or walk with a flashlight :D in the literal sense the light really leaves and there's zippo we can do about it. It will be silly though to sit in the dark when there are candles, gas and flashlights. :D in the double meaning sense - the Light never really leave (there is always a candle burning) as we come from the Light so the Light is always within and around us. Its just our own silliness that makes us think the Light have left and we're sitting in the dark:D
Love and Light
Noels xxx
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Re: Spiritus Contra Spiritum

Postby Patsy© » Wed May 18, 2016 2:12 pm

He mentions taking risks speaking openly about this spiritual approach, at that time the leading psychiatrists Freud being one, would have laughed Jung out of town for talking about a spiritual approach to anything. I have read that Roland asked Freud and one other prominent psychiatrist of the time before he asked Jung, Joe and Charlie speak about this as well. The others couldn't take him, if they had we can be quite sure he would not have got the message he did. Some may say it's good luck things happened the way they did, I prefer to believe that even then, the power that keeps us sober today was in charge of those events.



Brock,

Rowland Hazard tried to get Dr. Freud first and when he wasn't available, he then tried to get Dr. Adler, who was also unavailable. That is when he went into treatment by Dr. Jung.

I don't believe this is a coincidence that Dr. Jung was the psychiatrist who took on Rowland. Dr. Freud and Dr. Adler both believed that everything was from the mind and didn't believe in any kind of Spirituality or God.
Jung did and shared with Rowland that he had seen some who overcame the kind of alcoholism that he believed Rowland had. And it was a Spiritual solution that worked for those who overcame that kind of alcoholism. Thank God for Dr. Jung or as Joe and Charlie said, we AA's might all be sitting around the tables psychoanalyzing one another! LOL
Failed 12 Step Call? Not if we walk away sober!
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Re: Spiritus Contra Spiritum

Postby ezdzit247 » Wed May 18, 2016 2:41 pm

Patsy© wrote:...I don't believe this is a coincidence that Dr. Jung was the psychiatrist who took on Rowland. Dr. Freud and Dr. Adler both believed that everything was from the mind and didn't believe in any kind of Spirituality or God....


I agree. Jung described these kinds of "coincidences" as acausal events connected by meaning rather than causality in his Theory of Synchronicity. Hindsight tells us that the meeting between Jung and Rowland created a kind of "butterfly effect" which eventually became a global "tsunami" of alcohol recovery. Who knew?
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Re: Spiritus Contra Spiritum

Postby Patsy© » Wed May 18, 2016 3:31 pm

ezdzit247 wrote:
Patsy© wrote:...I don't believe this is a coincidence that Dr. Jung was the psychiatrist who took on Rowland. Dr. Freud and Dr. Adler both believed that everything was from the mind and didn't believe in any kind of Spirituality or God....


I agree. Jung described these kinds of "coincidences" as acausal events connected by meaning rather than causality in his Theory of Synchronicity. Hindsight tells us that the meeting between Jung and Rowland created a kind of "butterfly effect" which eventually became a global "tsunami" of alcohol recovery. Who knew?


Coincidence...is simply God....choosing to remain Anonymous! :D :mrgreen: :D :mrgreen:
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