Self hatred and fear of people

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Re: Self hatred and fear of people

Postby jpharm713 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:23 pm

Peace,

The advice given here is extremely helpful. It sounds like you may be suffering from psychological disorders as well as addiction, or what they refer to as "Dual Disorders". I know this only because I also am a dual-disorder, with anxiety and depression. The hard part is identifying what is the actual problem - did the anxiety lead to drinking or did the drinking lead to anxiety, etc. Only you and a doctor can decide that for sure. However I highly recommend reading the "Dual Disorders Recovery Book" if you are able and also meeting with a psychiatrist or therapist, at the very least. It sounds like you have some deep-rooted issues that would be best discussed with a professional. A couple things you can write and read aloud to someone close or a therapist when you find one:

1.) What are you grateful for? - this assignment was powerful for me. It almost became a prayer. You might think you have nothing to be grateful for, but you do.
2.) A Positive Qualities List. - write down every positive quality about yourself. Read it to yourself daily. Add to it as often as you can.
3.) Angers, hurts, and fears List - write down every, and I mean EVERY, instance where you have felt angry, hurt, or afraid. Go back as far as you can remember. Get it all out. This one obviously will probably take awhile, but it can really help you identify resentments you might still be hanging on to.

Best of luck to you, and an infinite amount of internet hugs. You are on the right path. You WILL get better.
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Re: Self hatred and fear of people

Postby Tosh » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:58 am

jpharm713 wrote:1.) What are you grateful for? - this assignment was powerful for me. It almost became a prayer. You might think you have nothing to be grateful for, but you do.


Recently I tried to 12 Step a middle-aged guy who is a chronic alcoholic. He lives alone in a bedsit, doesn't work, and no-one loves him. He was telling me that "Being sober is okay for you, you have a woman, you work, you drive, etc" and he just couldn't see any hope for himself.

So I shared about some folk in the Fellowship I knew who were happy and sober, like Pat who went totally blind 7 years ago, and Martin who is paralyzed from his neck down (very little movement in his arms; drinks coffee from a baby cup) after falling from a sofa drunk (I kid you not; a ruddy sofa).

And there he was with two eyes that could see, ears that can hear, arms and legs fully intact and movable. All that right there is a lot to be grateful for. For blind Pat, I'm sure heaven would be just to be able to see her kid's faces again; but here I have two eyes that work great, yet I'm not feeling grateful. I need to have a good look at myself sometimes; my thinking isn't straight.
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)
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Re: Self hatred and fear of people

Postby maurits » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:38 pm

peace wrote:
Layne wrote:Why do you hate yourself?

I don't know why. It started in childhood with an abusive father.


dear fellows,

indeed, i can relate,

all early experiences from my childhood were somehow stored in my body,

those memories were already imprinted within me long before i was even able to speak,


i have learned and experienced for myself that self-healing depends squarely upon facing my own obsessions, attachments and buried rage,

somtimes it was difficult to proceed, but eventually my own buried truth emerged and after accepting my own naked truth, regardless of anyone else's,

i was set free,


by doing this deep psychological work for myself i also gradually became useful for recovery, healing and awakening of others,

still, i'm not a saint, merely a recovering alcoholic, willing to grow along spiritual lines :-)

i'm grateful for the meetings, the 12 steps of recovery, the spiritual tools, the fellowship of AA, the spiritual practice, and the conscious contact with a

power greater than myself,


by the way, did i already mention that today, monday february 17, i'm exactly 5 years sober :-)


blessed that my higher power still guides me, step by step, one day at a time,

thank you all for sharing experience, strength and hope,

stay safe and connected,


kind regards,

maurits
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Re: Self hatred and fear of people

Postby ann2 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:06 am

Congratulations maurits!! Awesome!!

Ann
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Re: Self hatred and fear of people

Postby Squawking Hawk » Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:18 am

maurits, thanks so much for your share, I identified. And congratulations on celebrating five years sober.

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Re: Self hatred and fear of people

Postby maurits » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:07 pm

Ann and Hawk, thank you! hug maurits
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Re: Self hatred and fear of people

Postby Astrid » Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:39 pm

Tosh, I loved your post!

I so relate to the self hatred and fear of people. I grew up with a verbally, emotionally and physically abusive father so I absolutely know how painful that is. Because of the big book I can see my part a little better in my pain of growing up with my dad. I lied to him a lot to avoid getting in trouble, I gave him the silent treatment in retaliation for the hurt I felt because of his actions and I wrote about how much I hated him in my diary, which he then read.

I dunno.

I'm terrified of what others think of me because I'm so uncomfortable in my skin and I feel like others can sense that. And then I feel ashamed. It sucks.
"The difficulty lies in our own imagination. It takes time to overcome the restrictions that we place on our own ideas." - John Tabak PhD 'History of Mathematics'
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Re: Self hatred and fear of people

Postby ann2 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:03 am

Astrid, I love your share. It is so honest and insightful. It took me more than a decade to identify the wrongs I'd done my mother, who for the longest time I blamed for everything.

Step 4 really really really helped with that astrid! And the steps that followed, which I then took in order. My mom can be troublesome but today I don't have any buttons for her to push. Thanks to this program repairing the brokenness in me.

I love what you share because I can identify so much with that feeling. Little by little joy has seeped in and started to fill in the gaps that cut me off from others. I know exactly what you mean and that's why I often think that the newcomer is the bravest person n the room. A new person is squaring off against the doubt monsters on their own terms, not even having one experience of the help that AA provides to draw from.

Get that experience! Do the hard stuff and find out how AA can get you through. Each experience prepares us for the next :)

I have a theory that we get sober at the most important time of our lives, that every sober second we work for is crucial to the outcome of some mysterious event in our lives. Maybe I just needed an extra motivation. But I know I needed every single 24 hours sober I have behind me in order to get through this day.

Pathetic? Hey I'm alcoholic. I'm a miracle today because I'm living sober.

Ann
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Re: Self hatred and fear of people

Postby chefchip » Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:12 am

I don't think I have said this, yet, so welcome Astrid! Like Ann, you share touched me in a very visceral way today, and I wanted to share something back. I, too, grew up with an abusive parent. The scars from that experience are real and often visible in my relationships. I became an adult with no clear understanding of who I really was. Quite often that self-insecurity and lack of self knowledge caused serious problems.

Because of my discomfort in my own skin, I allowed others to hurt me, sometimes even encouraged them to do so. Then -- being truly screwed up -- I resented them for hurting me. I learned in my fourth step that the biggest reason for most of my resentments was mine to own -- that being the fact that I never stood up for myself, I never gave anyone any idea what was going on inside me. Who I was was a moving target, depending on who I was with at the time.

And, now, nearly a year after that fourth step, I'm faced with new challenges. I'm having to learn a) who I am on an emotional/human level and b) how to BE that person in a kind, loving, respectful and adult way. It's hard to do when one is a teenager. As a 50-something... well :shock:! Every day I interact with people who have known me forever. And I'm trying to stand my ground, as it were, to be a real, defined person. Often that is a shock, disquieting, to those around me. We are all adjusting, it would seem. But it is working, albeit slowly.

I'm going through one of those situations at this moment, and having funny feelings about it. On one hand, I'm numb, slightly depressed (situationally, not clinically), and scared out of my mind at the potential short-term outcomes of this particular situation. On the other hand, I realize that I am doing this VERY differently than I would have were I still drinking -- I'm determined, I'm hopeful in the long-term outlook, and I have a support system to die for (including e-AA, my mentors and my higher power). Most of all, I realize that I am doing this for me, and actually maintaining my internal integrity, because for once I have a good idea of what I need from this situation.

"We will intuitively know how to handle situations that used to baffled us." Indeed.

Chip

PS -- Sorry. This all just sort of came out. I started out just to welcome you! :wink:
The only constant in life is change.
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Re: Self hatred and fear of people

Postby Brock » Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:11 am

The whole business of feeling uncomfortable, and even( as has been said),feeling that others can sense just how uncomfortable you are, is something I have seen a lot of in AA, and been through myself. I now take some joy in seeing newcomers overcome this unease, and grow in confidence and feeling of self worth, because I know this is one of the benefits of AA, one of many.

When I first came for what I thought was just to stay sober, I was unsure of myself and self conscious, something I see in virtually every newcomer. Then when we realize that these folks at AA meetings are pretty well ordinary Joe’s, with a genuine desire to help us, and often a quite humble way in offering the assistance, we start to grow in confidence. The steps 4 & 5 at first glance look like they might make us feel even more uncomfortable about ourselves, writing down and discussing shortcomings, but in practice they have the wonderful effect of giving us a true picture of who we really are. Wonderful because we are able to then accept our shortcomings, and in so doing we also see the many positives in ourselves. At the conclusion of my fifth step, I actually looked at myself in the mirror and smiled, not a conceited smile but with a feeling of pride I said out loud , “not bad – not bad at all.” It was at this point I realized that AA was about much more than just living sober.

In my area we use a newcomers booklet which contains a poem called “The Man In The Glass,” this meant a lot to me and I will copy it here :-

When you get what you want in your struggle for self
And the world makes you king for a day
Just go to the mirror and look at yourself
And see what that man has to say.

For it isn’t your father, or mother, or wife
Whose judgment upon you must pass
The fellow whose verdict counts most in your life
Is the one staring back from the glass.

He’s the fellow to please – never mind all the rest
For he’s with you, clear to the end
And you’ve passed your most difficult, dangerous test
If the man in the glass is your friend.

You may fool the whole world down the pathway of years
And get pats on the back as you pass
But your final reward will be heartache and tears
If you’ve cheated the man in the glass.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
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Re: Self hatred and fear of people

Postby Selead » Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:08 pm

Just always keep in touch. Stay strong.
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Re: Self hatred and fear of people

Postby Astrid » Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:11 am

Hey guys

I find that I face all sorts of weird conundrums in regards to the way I see myself or want others to see me or think others see me. On one hand I have a massive ego that convinces me that secretly I am a super model genius....then I walk into a room and assess the people inside and then decide based on my assessment of the other people there where I fit in on the totem pole.

I so desperately want to be better than others, wiser, more attractive, wealthier etc... I think it says something in the big book like "we knew nothing of true kinship with man". I really relate to that but it's interesting, the more step work I do, the more I feel one of....humbled and on equal footing with others. My resentments and angers seem to me ridiculous and petty. It's easier for me to feel "one of" when I can clearly see my part in things and my own imperfections.

I've been in twelve step programs since I was 22, I'm 32 now and I've learned a lot but clearly have a long way to go. And have just hit an incredible bottom with alcohol. I really am starting to believe that alcoholism is genetic because my grandfather died of alcoholism and I know I'm alcoholic. The physical desire for that crap is astounding. I'm surprised to find myself triggered just seeing people drink in a movie. The hardest part of this journey, for me, has been the realization that I truly am an alcoholic and I will never be normal in concern to alcohol. But it is still so hard to accept.

I'm rambling
"The difficulty lies in our own imagination. It takes time to overcome the restrictions that we place on our own ideas." - John Tabak PhD 'History of Mathematics'
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Re: Self hatred and fear of people

Postby Brock » Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:50 pm

Astrid wrote: I'm surprised to find myself triggered just seeing people drink in a movie.

In the chapter “working with others” on page 101 it actually says “we must avoid moving pictures which show drinking scenes.” This really shows how old our book is, moving pictures indeed. This is in a section showing the things to avoid when new, and includes the obvious other things like bars and so on. I was surprised that films were included at first, but like yourself I found myself being tempted, and it is safe to assume the writer Bill Wilson felt the same way.

Of course it goes on to say that once we are well grounded and in fit spiritual condition, we no longer need to avoid these things, and I have found this mostly true, but somehow the drink in films looks most tempting. My belief is that they make the whole thing look so attractive, I will bet that while some of us might lick our lips at an attractive man or woman nursing a fine scotch, in a comfortable setting, we will not be affected at all by a skid row bum drinking booze in a bag. I like westerns, and when the hero saunters up to the bar and gets his bottle, I used to feel a little envy. But a while ago I had the opportunity to visit a western movie site during filming and get the tour after, the bottles were all filled with tea, now I just tell myself they are all drinking tea anyway, and I am no longer bothered.
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Re: Self hatred and fear of people

Postby chefchip » Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:42 am

Assuming we are spiritually fit, we can do all sorts of things alcoholics are not supposed to do. People have said we must not go where liquor is served; we must not have it in our homes; we must shun friends who drink; we must avoid moving pictures which show drinking scenes; we must not go into bars; our friends must hide their bottles if we go to their houses; we mustn't think or be reminded about alcohol at all. Our experience shows that this is not necessarily so.

I'm sorry, but I have to jump in here. That part of a sentence quoted from the Big Book about "moving pictures" has nothing to do with things and places that must be avoided, in early sobriety or otherwise. The entire passage is quoted above, for reference (blue highlights mine). This part of the book is talking about the untrue belief that recovered alcoholics must be sheltered for the rest of their lives, that they have to be treated like children as some people are wont to do.

I don't disagree that avoiding temptation in early recovery is a good thing to do, and mostly I agree with what you said in your post. But, in my opinion, using this passage as a justification for doing so misses the point of the passage. It is meant to be a passage of hope for the alcoholic and his/her loved ones -- hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Chip
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Re: Self hatred and fear of people

Postby Brock » Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:04 am

chefchip wrote:
This part of the book is talking about the untrue belief that recovered alcoholics must be sheltered for the rest of their lives


It is true that the quotation when shortened takes away from the big picture, but really it was directed to a lady who was approximately 5 days sober, hardly the “recovered” alcoholic the quote above refers to, and intended to assure her that feeling tempted when she saw people drinking in movies was nothing much to worry about. I am not arguing for or against the post, but would like to point out a couple of things.

Brock said - Of course it goes on to say that once we are well grounded and in fit spiritual condition, we no longer need to avoid these things, and I have found this mostly true


I think anybody would agree that when I said “well grounded and in fit spiritual condition,” that means recovered, and therefore in my opinion shows plenty of light at the end of the tunnel, which covers the other point Chip was making when he said –

It is meant to be a passage of hope for the alcoholic and his/her loved ones -- hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel.
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