Highest Position in AA!

For recovery discussion

Re: Highest Position in AA!

Postby Greywolf » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:05 am

No Bovine Scat wrote:I suggest you reread from the 12 and 12 book.

The 12 and 12? Isn't that the book the forward calls a group of essays, i.e., Bill W's personal point of view?

I must agree that Bill W. thought that we could change ourselves. Actually that's kind of funny, isn't it? An alcoholic who couldn't stay away from a drink is now going to change himself.

Big of us isn't it? We are going to fix what God has screwed up when he created us. Fitting of an arrogant alcoholic to think he could correct the work of God.

Too bad Bill wasn't listening when Dr. Bob admonished him, "Bill, for God's sake keep it simple."
I don't care how much you know until I know how much you care.
Greywolf
Forums Enthusiast
 
Posts: 178
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:56 pm

Re: Highest Position in AA!

Postby Brock » Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:02 am

Let’s leave the 12 & 12 aside for now, and look at the big book, and hope Greywolf won’t say that’s Bill’s personal view as well. It starts off with the doctor speaking of the psychic change several times like this -
This is repeated over and over, and unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of his recovery.

OK this is talking about psychic change, but in very many areas, it also speaks about the change in attitude and the way we live, here are three, (emphasis added), there are many more -
There has been a revolutionary change in their way of living and thinking….Leaving aside the drink question, they tell why living was so unsatisfactory. They show how the change came over them. .. Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change. ...

It seems very clear to me, that first we have the psychic change to overcome the obsession, then we grow in spirituality, and the ability to change every aspect of our thinking and way of living which is holding us back from the promised happy and serene life.

It speaks also of changing our point of view, maybe Greywolf will do so.
We had to ask ourselves why we shouldn't apply to our human problems this same readiness to change our point of view.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
User avatar
Brock
Forums Coordinator
 
Posts: 3489
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:45 pm

Re: Highest Position in AA!

Postby tomsteve » Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:46 am

im tom addicted alcoholic.
i like bacon. glad ya'll are here and thanks for letting me share. =biggrin


Dr. Bob's Farewell Talk
My good friends in A.A. and of A.A.,

… I get a big thrill out of looking over a vast sea of faces like this with a feeling that possibly some small thing I did a number of years ago played an infinitely small part in making this meeting possible. I also get quite a thrill when I think that we all had the same problem. We all did the same things. We all get the same results in proportion to our zeal and enthusiasm and stick-to-itiveness. If you will pardon the injection of a personal note at this time, let me say that I have been in bed five of the last seven months and my strength hasn't returned as I would like, so my remarks of necessity will be very brief.

There are two or three things that flashed into my mind on which it would be fitting to lay a little emphasis. One is the simplicity of our program. Let's not louse it all up with Freudian complexes and things that are interesting to the scientific mind, but have very little to do with our actual A.A. work. Our Twelve Steps, when simmered down to the last, resolve themselves into the words “love” and “service.” We understand what love is, and we understand what service is. So let's bear those two things in mind.

Let us also remember to guard that erring member the tongue, and if we must use it, let's use it with kindness and consideration and tolerance.

And one more thing: None of us would be here today if somebody hadn't taken time to explain things to us, to give us a little pat on the back, to take us to a meeting or two, to do numerous little kind and thoughtful acts in our behalf. So let us never get such a degree of smug complacency that we're not willing to extend, or attempt to extend, to our less fortunate brothers that help which has been so beneficial to us.

Thank you very much.
tomsteve
Forums Contributor
 
Posts: 376
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:25 am

Re: Highest Position in AA!

Postby No Bovine Scat » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:54 am

Greywolf wrote:
No Bovine Scat wrote:I hear the phrase "a person needs to get active in the program".

However, washing ash trays, making coffee, etc. is NOT the program. Those activities just allow a person to be among other sober people which we all need to do. Especially if a person is new.

Washing ash trays, making coffee, etc., sounds like something one would do in a fellowship such as the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, which allows a person to be among other sober alcoholics.

At my early meetings I was grateful that they let me wash coffee cups and ashtrays. Proved to myself that I wasn't a visitor or guest but an actual member. There weren't many places I was welcome as a member and AA was the one place I could count on to be welcome.

I for one believe that taking part in the tasks needed to put on a meeting gives newer people "ownership" in the group or meeting. Old timers doing the cleaning up or setting up gives us a good feeling but deprives newer members that same good feeling.

As far as need to know something to chair a meeting is concerned, how much did those great people who started the first group in a new community know? Not much but AA did just fine with new people (which is all there were) chairing meetings. We didn't have sign-up sheets, the "steering committee" would look to see who would benefit from the experience of chairing the meeting and would "suggest" that person chair for the next month.

I don't recall any of us being full of confidence when we came to AA but you could see the difference chairing made. For some just being "trusted" to chair a meeting was a real self- esteem boost.


I do believe you are confusing "fellowship" with "Recovery". I found plenty of "fellowship" in the bars. But that fellowship was not going to keep me sober. It was a fellowship based on consuming alcohol. The "A.A. Fellowship" is a group of people working towards recovery. The mere term "recovering" connotes a transition (change) from one state of being to another.
No Bovine Scat
Forums Enthusiast
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:52 pm

Re: Highest Position in AA!

Postby No Bovine Scat » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:09 am

Greywolf wrote:
No Bovine Scat wrote:I hear the phrase "a person needs to get active in the program".

However, washing ash trays, making coffee, etc. is NOT the program. Those activities just allow a person to be among other sober people which we all need to do. Especially if a person is new.

Washing ash trays, making coffee, etc., sounds like something one would do in a fellowship such as the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, which allows a person to be among other sober alcoholics.

At my early meetings I was grateful that they let me wash coffee cups and ashtrays. Proved to myself that I wasn't a visitor or guest but an actual member. There weren't many places I was welcome as a member and AA was the one place I could count on to be welcome.

I for one believe that taking part in the tasks needed to put on a meeting gives newer people "ownership" in the group or meeting. Old timers doing the cleaning up or setting up gives us a good feeling but deprives newer members that same good feeling.

As far as need to know something to chair a meeting is concerned, how much did those great people who started the first group in a new community know? Not much but AA did just fine with new people (which is all there were) chairing meetings. We didn't have sign-up sheets, the "steering committee" would look to see who would benefit from the experience of chairing the meeting and would "suggest" that person chair for the next month.

I don't recall any of us being full of confidence when we came to AA but you could see the difference chairing made. For some just being "trusted" to chair a meeting was a real self- esteem boost.[/quot


What does the 12th step say? "After having a spiritual experience as a result of these steps we tried carrying this message to other alcoholics and practice these principles in all our affairs. " So "service is not talked about in the steps until the 12th and final step. After the change has occurred.
No Bovine Scat
Forums Enthusiast
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:52 pm

Re: Highest Position in AA!

Postby Greywolf » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:49 am

No Bovine Scat wrote:
I do believe you are confusing "fellowship" with "Recovery". I found plenty of "fellowship" in the bars. But that fellowship was not going to keep me sober. It was a fellowship based on consuming alcohol. The "A.A. Fellowship" is a group of people working towards recovery. The mere term "recovering" connotes a transition (change) from one state of being to another.

Since we see the world through our own eyes, you are probably confusing recovery with fellowship.
Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics achieve sobriety. The first order of business is to stay sober. Fellowship doesn't occur in the modern day AA where "members" are out the door by 9:05 after getting their dose of "recovery."

No Bovine Scat wrote:The mere term "recovering" connotes a transition (change) from one state of being to another.

You are entitled to your opinion. Here's mine: recovery is an awakening of the spirit after said spirit has been in an alcohol induced coma for goodness knows how long. As one continues to dry out this spirit regains control of our behaviors and decision making.

There is no change, just the wakening of the spirit. If the Great Spirit (God) didn't want us to have character attributes, what you call defects, he/she wouldn't have made us the way we are. Our job as human beings is to manage our behavior, not change so we don't have to manage it.
I don't care how much you know until I know how much you care.
Greywolf
Forums Enthusiast
 
Posts: 178
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:56 pm

Re: Highest Position in AA!

Postby Tosh » Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:23 pm

Right, I'm glad we've ironed out that little misunderstanding.

Would anyone like a coffee?
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)
User avatar
Tosh
Forums Old Timer
 
Posts: 3723
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 10:43 am

Re: Highest Position in AA!

Postby JaninGV1942 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:12 pm

The symbol of AA is a Triangle. These are AA's three Legacies !

Unity - 12 Traditions
Recovery - 12 Steps
Service - To others

We stay sober by working Steps with a Sponsor. ( this is not a do it your self program )
AA stays strong through respect and observance of the 12 Traditions
Service - Coffee maker is usually the 1st position for a new comer. It makes us feel a part of a Group by showing up early and staying late to clean up so
people get to know us. Then we generally rotate up though Service positions within our Home Group. As we grow in sobriety service within our group we
begin to get a greater appreciation and understanding of how Alcoholics Anonymous works in carrying its message of recovery to the still suffering Alcoholic.
"We begin to lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellow" Service within a Group is vital and every new person should have the opportunity to serve. Old timers know the wisdom of the principal of rotation of these service positions. Please don't criticize what you don't yet understand.
JaninGV1942
Forums Newcomer
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:23 pm

Re: Highest Position in AA!

Postby JungianRecovery » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:15 am

I was on the verge of going out because I felt apathetic about sobriety, which scared the crap out of me.

The next meeting I walked in to, quite honestly by accident, was asking for a coffee service and I volunteered. This inadvertently got me more involved in the program through meeting new people and only a couple weeks later I began to appreciate sobriety again.

Service saves lives.
JungianRecovery
Forums Enthusiast
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:49 am

Re: Highest Position in AA!

Postby Greywolf » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:43 am

JaninGV1942 wrote:The symbol of AA is a Triangle. These are AA's three Legacies !

Unity - 12 Traditions
Recovery - 12 Steps
Service - To others

We stay sober by working Steps with a Sponsor. ( this is not a do it your self program )
AA stays strong through respect and observance of the 12 Traditions
Service - Coffee maker is usually the 1st position for a new comer. It makes us feel a part of a Group by showing up early and staying late to clean up so
people get to know us. Then we generally rotate up though Service positions within our Home Group. As we grow in sobriety service within our group we
begin to get a greater appreciation and understanding of how Alcoholics Anonymous works in carrying its message of recovery to the still suffering Alcoholic.
"We begin to lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellow" Service within a Group is vital and every new person should have the opportunity to serve. Old timers know the wisdom of the principal of rotation of these service positions. Please don't criticize what you don't yet understand.
I don't care how much you know until I know how much you care.
Greywolf
Forums Enthusiast
 
Posts: 178
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:56 pm

Re: Highest Position in AA!

Postby Patsy© » Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:39 pm

These steps were once suggested as a program of recovery. There seems to be a misunderstanding that AA is a program and these step constitute that program.

I have read those 12 steps on that one sheet of paper -- more than a few times. No where in those steps does it say anything about making changes within ourselves. The 12th step tells us explicitly a spiritual awakening is the result of these steps.

I don't mean to be a pill but small in inaccuracies if repeated enough are taken as the way things really are.


There are two Vital parts to Alcoholics Anonymous .... The 12 Steps and The Fellowship.

Sobriety - the freedom from alcohol, through the teaching and practicing of the twelve steps is the sole purpose of an AA group. - Bill Wilson


The 12 steps are the Program of Recovery, they build on one another and they help us to change the person we bring into AA, one step at a time. We don't change by reading those 12 steps on a sheet of paper, we change by actually putting into Action....what we are reading.


Page 43 in the 12 & 12:

We want to find exactly how, when, and where our natural desires have warped us. We wish to look squarely at the unhappiness this has caused others and ourselves. By discovering what our emotional deformities are, we can move toward their correction. Without a willing and persistent effort to do this, there can be little sobriety or contentment for us. Without a searching and fearless moral inventory, most of us have found that the faith which really works in daily living is still out of reach.
Failed 12 Step Call? Not if we walk away sober!
User avatar
Patsy©
Forums Contributor
 
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 5:04 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Highest Position in AA!

Postby PaigeB » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:24 am

Tosh wrote:Right, I'm glad we've ironed out that little misunderstanding.

Would anyone like a coffee?

I would love a coffee! Thank you!
If I'm not able to say how I'm working my program today, then I'm not working my program.
The e-AA Group's 7th Tradition link: www.e-aa.org/group_seventh.php
User avatar
PaigeB
Forums Old Timer
 
Posts: 7636
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:28 pm
Location: Iowa USA

Re: Highest Position in AA!

Postby Patsy© » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:09 am

Tosh wrote:Right, I'm glad we've ironed out that little misunderstanding.

Would anyone like a coffee?


Yes please, coffee with cream no sugar, thank you
Failed 12 Step Call? Not if we walk away sober!
User avatar
Patsy©
Forums Contributor
 
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 5:04 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Highest Position in AA!

Postby tomsteve » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:59 pm

Tosh wrote:Right, I'm glad we've ironed out that little misunderstanding.

Would anyone like a coffee?


and some bacon,please. :)
tomsteve
Forums Contributor
 
Posts: 376
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:25 am

Re: Highest Position in AA!

Postby Service » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:49 pm

Highest rank in A.A is SOBER!
Service
Forums Contributor
 
Posts: 224
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:33 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests