There is A solution

The book Alcoholics Anonymous, aka The Big Book, is the basic text for the AA program of sobriety. "Alcoholics Anonymous" Copyright 2012 AAWS, Inc. All Rights, Reserved. Short excerpts used by permission of AAWS

Re: There is A solution

Postby Reborn » Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:28 pm

I'm glad when I finally got to AA hopeless and completely defeated that the old timers stuck to the solution...not some muddled version of what they "thought" AA should be. This many paths up the mountain is all well and good but this is AA...AA has one path to spirituality and that is the 12 steps. Anyone is free to practice any religion or have any concept of a Higher Power...but when they say " Rarely have we seen a person fail that has thoroughly followed OUR path"...they are talking about thoroughly following the path laid out precisely and concisely in the 12 steps...anything other than that is not AA...PERIOD. It boggles my mind why so many want to complicate such a simple program...if I was a newcomer reading this S*** I would be very confused. If you are new and reading this just read the book and "thoroughly follow the path" outlined in it....carefully follow direction.
We have recovered, and have been given the power to help others. BB pg 132
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Re: There is A solution

Postby D'oh » Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:31 pm

I don't understand why you choose to omit this part: "....under divine guidance to the best of our ability"?

I'm not seeing a lot of paths up the mountain here.


It's clearly stated in the part you omitted from his quote: "....under divine guidance to the best of our ability".


I'm starting to understand why people that get this program just leave this site. They don't even bother hanging around. And most of the oldtimers here just keep their mouth shut. You keep peddling what you want. You've been doing it since I joined here. I can only pity the people that cross your path coming into AA....They are at a disadvantage. It's truly sad.

I would actually like to meet Both of your paths in a F2F meeting. There are 2 strong beliefs. Might be why Sponsors are Chosen and not Appointed.
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Re: There is A solution

Postby Stepchild » Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:07 pm

There are 2 strong beliefs. Might be why Sponsors are Chosen and not Appointed.


I guess I was fortunate enough to choose a sponsor that believed this...

The tremendous fact for every one of us is that we have discovered a common solution. We have a way out on which we can absolutely agree, and upon which we can join in brotherly and harmonious action. This is the great news this book carries to those who suffer from alcoholism.
pg 17

Rather than this....

I am No Longer on My path, I drank that mountainous, thorn ridden path away. I am trying to trudge a path that is laid out by a Power Greater than myself.

To say there is one path, is to say there is one Guide.


If I was new and heard that in a meeting...I'd probably hit the road.
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Re: There is A solution

Postby PaigeB » Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:34 pm

We are really just mincing words at this point.

The 12 & 12 was written by our founding members from the pain of their experience. It was written VERY early on and AA has not yet self imploded. I think it is going to be ok - you guys and gals, I really do. AA is my Higher Power and I trust that it will be there for me and for my kids and yours too. Nothing vital will change and, if it does, we will all be Guided.

I am at peace with my Path and my message. If you are uncomfortable, you might ask yourself why - a little 10th Step work. I will pray for you all, as I often do. And remember this: Atheist prayers are very special. Our supplications tend to be humble and altruistic. If god and I are going to dig a ditch today, I better grab my shovel and be prepared to work with the tools I have been given. God will bring the sustenance required.

Bless you all with Inner Peace, Serenity and Total Surrender.
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Re: There is A solution

Postby avaneesh912 » Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:15 am

There are 2 strong beliefs.


Our primary purpose is to help another alcoholic to get sober right? You tell me, what spiritual paths out there talks so elaborately about alcoholism? Don't get confused about expanding after you awaken with the initial phase of recovery.

And that what I was trying to discuss, straight out of the big book and this Big book Study segment. The founders wanted to share their experience and came up with this simple spiritual kit so that a new comer can follow them and launch a recovery quickly. Stories especially in the pioneer section portray that. Bill working with Bob, Both working with the 3rd member. Dr. Bob working with the guy (He sold himself short).

Common thread: Realization, Clean house, finding God and helping others.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: There is A solution

Postby Stepchild » Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:17 am

We are really just mincing words at this point.


I disagree....More like fending off misinformation....

The 12 & 12 was written by our founding members from the pain of their experience. It was written VERY early on.....


You wouldn't happen to have a source for that?...Would you?

I am at peace with my Path and my message. If you are uncomfortable, you might ask yourself why - a little 10th Step work.


The book talks about "our" path...And "this" message. I think that's where we run into problems. I'm done with this....I hope someone learned something.
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Re: There is A solution

Postby avaneesh912 » Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:31 am

I remember one of the meetings where I was the discussion leader and pointed to this story "He sold himself short" where Dr. Bob and this the guy worked the resentment list in 4 hours, this particular woman came in late but yet got really angry at what I pointed to. She shared that her sponsor (a Male) allowed her to just go to meetings for 2 years (she was a abused woman) and thats what she could do and slowly after a while she did her steps. So, I know we are going to run to people who are not going to agree to what we share.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: There is A solution

Postby D'oh » Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:11 am

Well, one last thought on 1 path or many paths.

Has anyone in here been to a Group Conscience meeting? Pretty simple if there were only 1 path.

How about a District Committee Meeting? A room full of Trusted Servant's, that cannot agree on the 12 Traditions meanings.

How about, Where is the Oxford Group today. Many of the beginnings of Our Program come right from it's Readings. Except for parts of Choice, primarily of one's own Understanding of a Higher Power.

Yes the Big Book contains a way that with my Higher Powers help, I may never have to drink again. But every day is a Day that I have to deal with Life. I must ask for His guidance, and give Thanks at night.
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Re: There is A solution

Postby avaneesh912 » Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:25 am

Has anyone in here been to a Group Conscience meeting? Pretty simple if there were only 1 path.

How about a District Committee Meeting? A room full of Trusted Servant's, that cannot agree on the 12 Traditions meanings.


What about it? We are talking about solution to get over alcoholism. Again dont get confused with recovery and service work.


Edit: I do attend Group Conscience if I need to get permission to run workshops. And am the Corrections rep for my district and will be stepping down because my two year is over and still there because its Jan to Dec position. I don't goto the state assembly and get 200$ reimbursed for hotel and food. Instead I would spend that money buying books for inmates.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: There is A solution

Postby Brock » Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:21 am

Has anyone in here been to a Group Conscience meeting? Pretty simple if there were only 1 path.

I don't think this is a good analogy at all, at group conscience meetings we may discuss all sorts of things, for which the AA literature gives no specific instructions. Bob's coffee making skills suck, shall we ask him to rotate out of the post, or the groups finances are running lower than desired, things for which suggested guidelines can be found, but which every group can bend or twist any way they desire, because as the traditions point out every group is autonomous. Same with district committee, we interpret how the traditions apply to a particular problem or decision we have to make.

Not so with the AA program, whose message we are asked to carry in this way - “Having had a spiritual awaking as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.” There is no room for error, they tell us exactly what these steps, message and principles are in several places, starting in the forward - “To show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered is the main purpose of this book.”
Yes the Big Book contains a way that with my Higher Powers help, I may never have to drink again.

It does not just contain a way, it contains the way as taught by the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, and as we have said before, anyone seeking to teach some other way, (or so called path), is free to do so, but if they continue to do it here, we shall continue to insist that it is not the AA way, it is the message of CA, (crapola anonymous).
But every day is a Day that I have to deal with Life. I must ask for His guidance, and give Thanks at night.

Yes ! Something we can agree on, also known as steps 10 & 11.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
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Re: There is A solution

Postby PaigeB » Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:38 am

The Introduction to the 12 & 12 states that it was written by Bill W. and published in 1953 "to share 18 years of collective experience... on how AA members recover... the book has helped so many alcoholics find recovery, there exists a strong sentiment within the Fellowship against any change to it... We hope that the collective spiritual experience of the AA Pioneers captured in these pages continues to help alcoholics and friend of AA understand the principles of our program."
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Re: There is A solution

Postby PaigeB » Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:43 am

Not so with the AA program, whose message we are asked to carry in this way - “Having had a spiritual awaking as the result of these steps,

No one has suggested that there is a better way than the Steps, only that how one does the Steps is up to them and their HP.

Oh and that part about whether or not we should call names to people who do not play our way.
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Re: There is A solution

Postby avaneesh912 » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:42 am

I guess we all agree that in AA we use the 12 steps. How work them probably wary from one person to another. For example morning meditation, currently I use binaural beats, perhaps others follow different approach. I think the fundamental issue is about giving relief to the new-comer and in AA we ought to use that approach. if you read the chapter "working with others" it clearly states that. If the newcomers feels strongly he/she has a better approach encourage them to do so. They don't even have to be here.

If he thinks he can do the job in some other way, or prefers some other spiritual approach, encourage him to follow his own conscience. We have no monopoly on God; we merely have an approach that worked with us. But point out that we alcoholics have much in common and that you would like, in any case, to be friendly. Let it go at that. Do not be discouraged if your prospect does not respond at once. Search out another alcoholic and try again. You are sure to find someone desperate enough to accept with eagerness what you offer.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: There is A solution

Postby Brock » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:49 am

No one has suggested that there is a better way than the Steps, only that how one does the Steps is up to them and their HP.

I know that, and I only started my objections after you put this up -
“Some have been blessed by their HP with recovery no matter what or how or if they did the Steps.” A simple retraction of that statement and I would have shut up, but when someone sticks to their guns I shoot back.
Oh and that part about whether or not we should call names to people who do not play our way.

Oh come on, others on this forum have said people were talking crapola, I don't live in the US but assumed it was a polite joking way of saying crap. It was not intended to “call names to people” in a rude way, if I wanted to do that I could think of many other ways.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
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Re: There is A solution

Postby PaigeB » Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:14 am

how one does the Steps is up to them and their HP

Yeah - I stick by this. INCLUDING "if one does the Steps" according to the way you think they should. Why can't god just hand out gifts as He sees fit? You are not as necessary as you think. As a friend of mine is fond of saying, "I still need AA more than AA needs me."

I know a fella, has over 35 years since his last drink. Comes every Tuesday night and has a "plug in the jug" "have faith and hope" message. He would tell you that he worked the Steps "over the years" and understands the principles behind them. I don't think he has a sponsor and I do not know if he sponsors others, but he does help with the tables and the coffee before and after the meeting.

If you called him or his program crappola or if you suggested he was just a hard drinker and had no chair at the AA table, you would be the minority. He is a great asset to the meeting and to this AA community. I would physically stand with him against any thought of kicking him out or resigning him to open meetings based on any person's judgement that he does not fit the bill so aggressively laid out here.

I personally am an atheist who has no understanding of an interactive god. This is quite different from the helpful loving creator in the Literature. You think I am a hard drinker and I should leave? You think my program is crap? I am sorry for all those who spend their time judging others negatively, no matter what they believe their motives are. You can't hide ego under the good motive of "helping others".

What part of "We had to quit playing god" do you not understand? We do what we can based on our ES&H and leave the rest up to chaos or up to Him who presides over us all... whatever path is your understanding.
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