There is A solution

The book Alcoholics Anonymous, aka The Big Book, is the basic text for the AA program of sobriety. "Alcoholics Anonymous" Copyright 2012 AAWS, Inc. All Rights, Reserved. Short excerpts used by permission of AAWS

Re: There is A solution

Postby PuppyEars » Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:16 pm

Alcohol doesn't turn people into assholes. It just makes them forget to hide that part of themselves.
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Re: There is A solution

Postby D'oh » Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:05 pm

If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it-then you are ready to take certain steps.

At some of these we balked. We thought we could find an easier, softer way. But we could not. With all the earnestness at our command, we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start.
pg 58


Here are the steps we took which are suggested as a program of recovery. pg.59

Must we continue?

A Vision for You is very strategically placed at the end of the Program of Action laid out in the book. After reading it, one has a choice. In fact after reading to "Being convinced we were at step 3" pg.60 (well the second time) I decided to live the path written to the best my HP could describe it to me.

To say that there is Only 1 path, is saying there is only 1 Higher Power. So the HP I ask for help, who helps me through the day, and who I humbly thank for that help at night, is the only 1 out there. I can't afford that kind of Ego.
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Re: There is A solution

Postby Stepchild » Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:17 pm

Here are the steps we took which are suggested as a program of recovery. pg.59

Must we continue?


To say that there is Only 1 path, is saying there is only 1 Higher Power.


Never said anything about a Higher Power...We actually encourage newcomers to choose their own....I ask you one question....For anybody new reading along that may be interested in Alcoholics Anonymous....Can you show us all a different way than the one they suggest? It's a very simple question...At least share with all of us.....One other path.
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Re: There is A solution

Postby Stepchild » Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:23 pm

I know ya'll hate the 12 & 12... written by the Founders based on what they learned, but here it is anyway.


I wanted to comment on this...These were essays written by Bill W. which appeared first as Grapevine articles...From what I've read...Dr. Bob wanted to stay with one book. I just happen to agree with that.
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Re: There is A solution

Postby PaigeB » Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:32 pm

Love and tolerance of others is our CODE.

"God save me from being angry"

The program is here. I am pointing in that Direction. Come with me or drive your own car. Here is a Road Map. Enjoy the journey or don't. Turn off the path and come back. We don't shoot our wounded.
If I'm not able to say how I'm working my program today, then I'm not working my program.
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Re: There is A solution

Postby D'oh » Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:58 pm

I am No Longer on My path, I drank that mountainous, thorn ridden path away. I am trying to trudge a path that is laid out by a Power Greater than myself.

To say there is one path, is to say there is one Guide.
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Re: There is A solution

Postby ezdzit247 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:30 pm

...These were essays written by Bill W. which appeared first as Grapevine articles...From what I've read...Dr. Bob wanted to stay with one book. I just happen to agree with that.



Not true. Dr. Bob published the Akron Pamphlets and wrote articles for the Grapevine. And, he was an avid reader of all kinds of books on spirituality from many different religious traditions. There's an e-aa topic thread on the book titles in his personal library.

I particularly liked what he wrote in this 1948 Grapevine article entitled "The Fundamentals--In Retrospect"

"....It is fitting at this time to indulge in some retrospect regarding certain fundamentals. Much has been written; much has been said about the Twelve Steps of AA. These tenets of our faith and practice were not worked out overnight and then presented to our members as an opportunist creed. Born of our early trials and many tribulations, they were and are the result of humble and sincere desire, sought in personal prayer, for divine guidance.

As finally expressed and offered, they are simple in language, plain in meaning. They are also workable by any person having a sincere desire to obtain and keep sobriety. The results are the proof. Their simplicity and workability are such that no special interpretations, and certainly no reservations, have ever been necessary. And it has become increasingly clear that the degree of harmonious living that we achieve is in direct ratio to our earnest attempt to follow them literally under divine guidance to the best of our ability.....

....We've all seen the new member who stays sober for a time, largely through sponsor-worship. Then maybe the sponsor gets drunk, and you know what usually happens. Left without a human prop, the new member gets drunk, too. He has been glorifying an individual, instead of following the program....."
“To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.” -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Re: There is A solution

Postby Stepchild » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:00 pm

As finally expressed and offered, they are simple in language, plain in meaning. They are also workable by any person having a sincere desire to obtain and keep sobriety. The results are the proof. Their simplicity and workability are such that no special interpretations, and certainly no reservations, have ever been necessary. And it has become increasingly clear that the degree of harmonious living that we achieve is in direct ratio to our earnest attempt to follow them literally under divine guidance to the best of our ability.....


What part of this do you not understand?

As finally expressed and offered...
they are simple in language....
plain in meaning....
They are also workable by any person having a sincere desire to obtain and keep sobriety....
The results are the proof....
Their simplicity and workability are such that no special interpretations, and certainly no reservations, have ever been necessary......
And it has become increasingly clear that the degree of harmonious living that we achieve is in direct ratio to our earnest attempt to follow them literally....

Literally: in a literal manner or sense; exactly.

I'm not seeing a lot of paths up the mountain here.
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Re: There is A solution

Postby avaneesh912 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:19 pm

I know ya'll hate the 12 & 12... written by the Founders based on what they learned, but here it is anyway.


I do. LOL. It would have been better if had just written "12 Traditions".
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: There is A solution

Postby Stepchild » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:29 pm

It would have been better if had just written "12 Traditions


How many people would have gone out and spent money on that?
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Re: There is A solution

Postby avaneesh912 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:38 pm

Some times I wonder if Bill W helped the fellowship or dug its own grave by writing this book! I think with good intention he wanted to open up the fellowship with not so progressed drunks. Interestingly he writes at the bottom of step one "Why all the insistence that every AA must hit bottom first?....." He should know better right? No alcoholic in his right might (peak of the disease, or progressing toward the peak) would even consider any help.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: There is A solution

Postby ezdzit247 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:56 pm

What part of this do you not understand?


I don't understand why you choose to omit this part: "....under divine guidance to the best of our ability"?

I'm not seeing a lot of paths up the mountain here.


It's clearly stated in the part you omitted from his quote: "....under divine guidance to the best of our ability".

Dr. Bob also clearly stated the "many paths" concept of AA in this quote:

....Consider the eight-part program laid down in Buddhism: Right view, right aim, right speech, right action, right living, right effort, right mindedness and right contemplation. The Buddhist philosophy, as exemplified by these eight points, could be literally adopted by AA as a substitute for or in addition to the Twelve Steps. Generosity, universal love and welfare of others rather than considerations of self are basic to Buddhism. -- Akron Pamphlet, “Spiritual Milestones in Alcoholics Anonymous” 1940"
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Re: There is A solution

Postby ezdzit247 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:10 pm

PuppyEars wrote:Alcohol doesn't turn people into assholes. It just makes them forget to hide that part of themselves.


LOL... :lol: Thanks for the chuckle!
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Re: There is A solution

Postby Stepchild » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:27 pm

I don't understand why you choose to omit this part: "....under divine guidance to the best of our ability"?

I'm not seeing a lot of paths up the mountain here.


It's clearly stated in the part you omitted from his quote: "....under divine guidance to the best of our ability".


I'm starting to understand why people that get this program just leave this site. They don't even bother hanging around. And most of the oldtimers here just keep their mouth shut. You keep peddling what you want. You've been doing it since I joined here. I can only pity the people that cross your path coming into AA....They are at a disadvantage. It's truly sad.
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Re: There is A solution

Postby PaigeB » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:38 pm

D'oh wrote:I am No Longer on My path, I drank that mountainous, thorn ridden path away. I am trying to trudge a path that is laid out by a Power Greater than myself.

To say there is one path, is to say there is one Guide.

YES! I think the Christian texts refer to a "personal relationship".

One thing I don't get is why the resistance to the 12 & 12... I just don't see how it confuses or muddies the water for anyone. It helped me a great deal and tonight at the meeting I went to the reading was from the 10th Step, page 94, a detailing of potential evening personal inventories. It gives some good ideas about what to look for like "This subtle and elusive self-righteousness" that might cause us to "cover a bad motive with a good one." I thought it was quite timely for me! http://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/read-the- ... traditions

I know that in this discussion we are having trouble with understanding one another. Personally? I will leave you to your open minds and open hearts as you commune with your very own HP.
If I'm not able to say how I'm working my program today, then I'm not working my program.
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