BB pg 100-101

The book Alcoholics Anonymous, aka The Big Book, is the basic text for the AA program of sobriety. "Alcoholics Anonymous" Copyright 2012 AAWS, Inc. All Rights, Reserved. Short excerpts used by permission of AAWS

BB pg 100-101

Postby medic63 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:23 am

"Assuming we are spiritually fit, we can do all sorts of things alcoholics are not supposed to do. People have said we must not go where liquor is served; we must not have it in our homes; we must shun friends who drink."
BB PG 100-101

Early in sobriety, I was told that when the obsession to drink was lifted, I was free. I would be able to go anywhere any do anything, and alcohol would no longer control what I did where I went, etc.

"So our rule is not to avoid a place where there is drinking, If we have a legitimate reason for being there. That includes bars, night clubs, dances, receptions and weddings."
BB PG 101

To me, this is a major promise of the BB, and I have found it to be true for me.
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Re: BB pg 100-101

Postby avaneesh912 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:40 am

Yes, its a great promise. Also some where it talks about not shielding an alcoholic. I see a contrasting shift from what we read in the big book and the literature published after Bill Ws demise.

Edit:We meet these conditions every day. An alcoholic who cannot meet them, still has an alcoholic mind; there is something the matter with his spiritual status. His only chance for sobriety would be some place like the Greenland Ice Cap, and even there an Eskimo might turn up with a bottle of scotch and ruin everything! Ask any woman who has sent her husband to distant places on the theory he would escape the alcohol problem.

Maybe the people who tell others to avoid people places and things still have an alcoholic mind or they don't understand the power of the program.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: BB pg 100-101

Postby leejosepho » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:08 am

I think part of the problem today comes from people believing or thinking A.A. is about not drinking rather than about spiritual growth (knowledge, insight, wisdom and actual practice) far beyond the reach of the delusional, feel-good temptation situationally provided by alcohol. In the real A.A., "We A.A.'s do not *stay* away from drinking, we *grow* away from drinking" (Bill W.) while still living right here in this world where many, if not most of us, forever remain surrounded by alcohol.

People have said we must not...we must not...we must...we must...we must not...our friends must...we mustn't...
Experience proves this is nonsense. (original manuscript)


But to get there, we must first stop trying to stop drinking, admit complete defeat and powerlessness (Step One) even while sober and then also take (not "work") the remaining Steps straight from the book.
=======================
"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
("Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill, emphasis added)
=======================
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Re: BB pg 100-101

Postby clouds » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:40 am

Alcohol is always around, I haven't lived anywhere that there wasn't the possibility of getting my hands on a bottle if I wanted to. Yet I hardly even see these bottles! It really is as if they don't exist for me.

A spiritual experience is what I got from taking the steps. That's why I'm safe and protected from drinking today.
" Burn the idea into the consciousness of every man that he can get well regardless of anyone. The only condition is that he trust in God and clean house." page 98 A.A.
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Re: BB pg 100-101

Postby avaneesh912 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:43 am

There are two things going.

Majority of the people still think they have a choice in their drinking. Meaning they don't focus on the "queer mental twist" that leads to that 1st drink. They only focus on powerlessness AFTER we take that first drink. Thats why we have all those cliches.

Yes you are right about, people mis-intrepreting this program that is desinged for living instead of staying away from that drink.

Thats why some of the old-timers share something like "As long as I don't pick up..... I have a fat chance" as though they physically do something to stay away from alcohol. While the 10th step promise tells us otherwise.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: BB pg 100-101

Postby leejosepho » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:52 am

avaneesh912 wrote:There are two things going.

Majority of the people still think they have a choice in their drinking. Meaning they don't focus on the "queer mental twist" that leads to that 1st drink. They only focus on powerlessness AFTER we take that first drink. Thats why we have all those cliches...

Yes, and that is also why we have so many people who "Don't drink, one-day-at-a-time" until they end up drunk again, and then "Don't drink, one-day-at-a-time" until they end up drunk again, and then "Don't drink, one-day-at-a-time" until they end up drunk again, and then rinse-and-repeat until dead. If we could "Don't drink", then "Don't drink" would replace the closing paragraph of "The Doctor's Opinion", and we would have no book because there would be no need for A.A. at all!

...people mis-intrepreting this program that is desinged for living instead of staying away from that drink.

Thats why some of the old-timers share something like "As long as I don't pick up..... I have a fat chance" as though they physically do something to stay away from alcohol...

No real alcoholic who has truly recovered would ever share such a thing. Instead, we stopped trying to stop and then took the Steps to have the problem removed.
=======================
"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
("Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill, emphasis added)
=======================
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Re: BB pg 100-101

Postby avaneesh912 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:06 am

"Don't drink even if your ass falls off, pick it up and go to a meeting" draws lot of laughter in our home group, if that gentleman is in the room, people request him to say that. But guess what an alcoholic who has not had a spiritual awakening, the first thing he/she going to do is reach for a bottle.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: BB pg 100-101

Postby Brock » Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:45 am

Nice conversation and good points being made here. I believe the 'promise' that we can do anything others can, even when alcohol is present, and enjoy ourselves without drinking, is one of those that once they believe it, relieve the major worry every new person has.

But we must be careful not to show off, waving the red flag at the bull for our friends to see what a hero we are. At this time of year and culminating next Monday and Tuesday, the island of Trinidad that I live on hosts an internationally famous carnival, we get stars of music and screen visiting to take part as well. So the talk in meetings this week has seen some saying yes I am going to be in this band or that, no problem for me. Now these bands start at a certain spot and you must 'dance' to this extremely loud music while they wind through the city, no real way to escape, jump in your car and go home, no taxis either, when you get back about ten hours later to where you started then go home. Part of the price includes full access to 'drink trucks,' the festival is basically a drunken rampage before the start of the Christian festival of lent next Wednesday, then we go back to being good boys and girls.

The point is the book says 'if we have a legitimate reason for being there,' and I believe many do not heed this part as they should. So we will have those who slip and those who found it wasn’t much fun without the drink, and some who will actually enjoy it without drink. But very many believe that a 'legitimate' reason for being in certain places is that 'all the cool people are going,' or some such excuse. And fail to understand that certain things should be avoided, things which recovered alcoholics avoid without second thought, because they know there is so much enjoyment to be found in life, which does not involve surrendering to peer pressure just to be seen at events like these.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
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Re: BB pg 100-101

Postby PaigeB » Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:05 pm

Early in sobriety, I was told that when the obsession to drink was lifted, I was free. I would be able to go anywhere any do anything, and alcohol would no longer control what I did where I went, etc.

Yes, me too. But then I wondered why, if the obsession is Lifted, do I need to go to meetings and keep practicing this program? Well, some don't go to meetings and still practice the book and I know people like that. But I don't think that would be me ~ life and my defects interfere. I worked all the Steps, went through the first 164 pages with a sponsor and still I get a little restless, irritable and discontent if I don't got to meetings. It is a joy to go to meetings and see my people but it is more than that too. It is definite time set aside for prayer and for listening with my heart. I get to hear a lot of different experience on the reading that I wouldn't get if I read it at home. Last night's reading was the words preceding the 12 Steps from Chapter 5. Each person had a different part stand out to them or confirmed that they had an experience similar to another member. I know in a deep part of my innermost self that I am not alone and I carry that Hope with me until we meet again.

And what am I to do until the obsession if lifted? I saw fit to ask a nun and a priest (separately) why they continued to attend meeting even though they had substantial continuous sober time AND they obviously had a strong faith. I won't go into ALL of those convos (both were kind enough to take some time to sit with me) but on this topic, they referred me back to "practice" and "action". Meeting came at a set time and they could surely take some action during that time even if it was only to "suit up and show up". The nun told me she had "smart feet" so if her mind failed her her feet would get her to a meeting!

I do not think that god chooses the winners here based on a perfect surrender. Some good people keep relapsing and it is not for me to judge them and the quality of their surrender. For me it was a matter of throwing myself into this program and eventually understanding what surrender was. I still work at - aka practice - surrender on a daily basis. I have just enough faith that it will be enough should my azz fall off and I also have acquired those smart feet!

I was told. "Don't quit before the miracle." I did not give up and drink. Many of the old behaviors have been weeded out and though sometimes the old thought passes through, I refuse to nurture it and let it become an obsession. I have tools (kept shiny and sharp at meetings) that I can use. I think it is important to keep coming back to tell others I am not yet perfect. This is a process not an event.

Some days I will be fit to go anywhere and somedays it is best that I hang with my AA people.
If I'm not able to say how I'm working my program today, then I'm not working my program.
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Re: BB pg 100-101

Postby clouds » Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:45 pm

I won't be attending Carnival. Its very noisy and too much boozed up people. I don't have any social, business etc. reason for going and these kinds of things make me feel nervous.

There are lots of invitations I decide not to accept simply cause I would rather not go, even when my spiritual condition is good. No guilt about that either. I got past feeling I'd end up lonely if I didn't participate in things I actually didn't want to do. My life has changed a lot over the years and what interests me now hasn't got much to do with drinking events. We enjoy walks on the beach, staying home and just talking!

Right on, bravado and testing sobriety isn't the thing. I find my habit, learned early in sobriety, of stopping at the threshold of my door before going out and searching inside myself to get a reading on my spiritual conditon is still activated whenever I approach the door. Still works too!
" Burn the idea into the consciousness of every man that he can get well regardless of anyone. The only condition is that he trust in God and clean house." page 98 A.A.
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Re: BB pg 100-101

Postby Tosh » Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:17 pm

I tend to avoid my army reunions; these turn into 'drink your weight in beer sessions', and for some of them, that's an awful lot of beer.

And they keep on reminding me about things, like money they reckon I owe them.

I have no problems 12 Stepping a drunk, but socialising with them is a different matter; we're just on different wavelengths.
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)
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Re: BB pg 100-101

Postby leejosepho » Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:05 am

One of the best times I ever had around a campfire was with two friends who were drinking their fills of beer from their cooler next to my cooler of Mountain Dew, and they really howled when I ended up being the one who stumbled over the firewood while on my way to a tree. Anyone's drinking had not been the reason or purpose of the gathering, however, and I think that makes a big difference here...

"...ask yourself on each occasion, 'Have I any good social, business, or personal reason for going to this place? Or am I expecting to steal a little vicarious* pleasure from the atmosphere of such places?' If you answer these questions satisfactorily, you need have no apprehension...be sure you are on solid spiritual ground...that your motive in going is thoroughly good. Do not think of what you will get out of the occasion. Think of what you can bring to it." (pages 101-102)
*vicarious: acting for another; filling the place of another; substituting for another (Webster, 1828)

I did not want what they had (other than their company), I was not there to get what they had (other than their company) and neither was I willing/wishing/wanting to do what they had to do in order to get it!
=======================
"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
("Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill, emphasis added)
=======================
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