Questions, Questions! Got LOTS of them (at least 12!)

Got an issue with someone or something? Want to whine a little? Here's the place to do it, or to get to know folks, or ask those questions that don't fit anywhere else.
istj04
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Questions, Questions! Got LOTS of them (at least 12!)

Post by istj04 » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:39 am

Lots of questions to ask that I doubt I could get answered at any meeting. . . like:

1.) Do the 12 Steps mean what they say and say what they mean? If so, then they can't be "worked" by ANY individual in the present, as they are ALL WRITTEN IN THE PAST TENSE! If not, then what is the point of their existence?

2.) Why do none of the 12-Steps mention sobriety?

3.) What does "sponsorship" have to do with the 12-Steps since that is not mentioned in any of them?

4.) Why have the first 164 pages of the "Big Book" not changed ONE WORD since it was first published in 1939, and is treated like some form of "gospel"?

5.) If membership in AA is based on a "desire to stop drinking" (a thought), then someone who has ACTUALLY STOPPED (an action), clearly doesn't meet membership criteria anymore, and thus can't be an "AA member", right?

6.) What does a "spiritual entity" have to do with recovering from any addiction (alcohol or other drug), when no spiritual entity gets a person INTO an addiction?

7.) If having "spirituality" is the key to remaining sober in an AA program, then why are there not MORE atheist alcoholics? (Since they clearly LACK "spirituality" and all!)

8.) Why does AA teach the CO-DEPENDANCY of "keep coming back" to a group, when stopping (or starting an addiction) is clearly an INDIVIDUAL decision?

9.) Why are 12-Step programs so DISCRIMINATORY based on the types of drugs people are addicted to? What makes being addicted to alcohol so much "different" then being addicted to any other drug? A drug addiction is a drug addiction! (edited by Karl r---E-AA forums coordinator)!

10.) What would happen if I stole the coffee pot at an AA meeting while it was in progress? Is it true meetings can't be had unless the coffee pot is there?

11.) WHY do AA meeting secretaries hold "proof of attendance card" holders hostage for the ENTIRE MEETING, rather then just sign the card of someone who just wants a stupid proof of attendance card signed AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING? Wouldn't the "quality" of AA meetings go up, if all attendees at them were VOLUNTARILY THERE?

12.) What will happen to AA when its myopic focus on "alcoholism" causes it to lose addicts to other non-alcoholic drugs (like prescription medication for example!), since there is such militant addictive drug discrimination and segregation?

13.) If "alcoholism" is some kind of "disease", then HOW IS IT CAUGHT? Does this "disease" get "spread" at AA meetings?

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marietta
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Re: Questions, Questions! Got LOTS of them (at least 12!)

Post by marietta » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:06 am

So you were sent by the court? Did someone hold you "hostage" by not signing your court slip? This topic, and many others you have asked about, are addressed throughout this forum and can also be brought up at any AA meeting for discussion if you are so inclined.

It seems like you are fueled by resentment, and until you are willing to listen you will not hear or understand any answers we might have to offer you. As part of the program of recovery here we make a sincere effort daily to cease fighting everyone and everything. This means to engage with you on these questions would likely be of no use because your stance appears to be one of rage and blame as opposed to sincere inquiry. There may be forum members who will want to take you on, but I don't think it's in my best interests to craft thoughtful responses just to have them hurled back at me.

If you want to investigate AA there are other, better ways.

lee? This seems like a job for you!

marietta
"There can be nothing more frequent than an occasional drink." ~ Oscar Wilde

btnben
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Re: Questions, Questions! Got LOTS of them (at least 12!)

Post by btnben » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:21 am

Hi all

I'm new to all this - this was my first stop on this site. What's with all these questions? More importantly, why won't you answer them, because he seems angry? If you don't answer questions people get angry. Why are you trying to make him angrier than he already is?

istj04
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Re: Questions, Questions! Got LOTS of them (at least 12!)

Post by istj04 » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:21 am

Ah-the "resentment" card! Asking questions to GAIN UNDERSTANDING of an organization and its uh. . . . "philosophy" is somehow "resenting" it? I ask on BEHALF OF coerced clients who are forced to endure INVOLUNTARY-ATTENDED meetings! But then again, yes I DO RESENT any organization that PROMOTES ITSELF (while denying that it does!), and "encourages" hospitals, rehabs, and courts to feed meeting attendees into it, when said attedees do NOT walk into a meeting of their OWN FREE WILL!

I hope you get better someday Marietta!

istj04
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Re: Questions, Questions! Got LOTS of them (at least 12!)

Post by istj04 » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:29 am

btnben wrote:Hi all

I'm new to all this - this was my first stop on this site. What's with all these questions? More importantly, why won't you answer them, because he seems angry? If you don't answer questions people get angry. Why are you trying to make him angrier than he already is?
Thank you for the endorsement of my questions. Its not "anger" (or some bullshit "resentment"!) that drives the questions, its GENUINE INQUIRY to which I doubt honest answers will be forthcoming.

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Re: Questions, Questions! Got LOTS of them (at least 12!)

Post by Steven F » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:31 am

Hold on to your panties, you all. I can answer all these questions, but give us a bit more time than five minutes before you start jumping around, ok?

It would make a lot more sense if I knew a little bit about you also - and you too, btnben, since you seem to want to jump in. For example, have you read that book you are talking about? And, do you do anything else in AA besides going to meetings?

I'm not asking to antagonise. I just like my answers to be useful to you.

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Re: Questions, Questions! Got LOTS of them (at least 12!)

Post by btnben » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:33 am

Hi

I'm not looking to get into any trouble here, but when Marietta said there's no point talking until you're ready to listen, it just didn't make sense. How do you know if someone can hear you until you say something? Am I being a bit thick here, I'm from England but we're not ALL inbred morons...lol

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Re: Questions, Questions! Got LOTS of them (at least 12!)

Post by btnben » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:35 am

Steven F

The first response was from Marietta who said the questions were NOT going to be answered, so please don't talk to me as if I'm some kind of naughty child. It's simply rude.

istj04
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Re: Questions, Questions! Got LOTS of them (at least 12!)

Post by istj04 » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:43 am

Steven F wrote:Hold on to your panties, you all. I can answer all these questions, but give us a bit more time than five minutes before you start jumping around, ok?

It would make a lot more sense if I knew a little bit about you also - and you too, btnben, since you seem to want to jump in. For example, have you read that book you are talking about? And, do you do anything else in AA besides going to meetings?

I'm not asking to antagonise. I just like my answers to be useful to you.
Surely the questions can be answered regardless of whether I have read "that book" or whether I "go to meetings". They are simple and direct, and ought to have simple and direct answers made to them.

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Re: Questions, Questions! Got LOTS of them (at least 12!)

Post by istj04 » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:56 am

btnben wrote:Hi

I'm not looking to get into any trouble here, but when Marietta said there's no point talking until you're ready to listen, it just didn't make sense. How do you know if someone can hear you until you say something? Am I being a bit thick here, I'm from England but we're not ALL inbred morons...lol

I think its because "questions" are in fact NOT encouraged at an AA meeting! Can anyone recall a meeting in which they were or are?

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marietta
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Re: Questions, Questions! Got LOTS of them (at least 12!)

Post by marietta » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:57 am

"If you don't answer questions people get angry."

btnben: Do you concede that istj04 came right out of the chute with attitude? Are you trying to claim that he showed no anger in his initial post? Let's put this in perspective. If someone comes onto the forum looking for answers to legitimate questions, the better way to pose the questions is without rancor. My response to istj04 was exactly that: a RESPONSE to rancor. The genuine inquiry was covered up with what reads like verbal sniping. This is sometimes regarded as "trolling".

So now istj04 comes back with "Thank you for the endorsement of my questions. Its not "anger" (or some bullshit "resentment"!) that drives the questions, its GENUINE INQUIRY to which I doubt honest answers will be forthcoming." Then why ask? There's a common civil behavior we all subscribe to here. I'm happy to address questions from newcomers, but not from transparently contemptuous individuals.

I trust Steven F can and will eloquently respond to your questions. I hope you find what you're searching for.

marietta
"There can be nothing more frequent than an occasional drink." ~ Oscar Wilde

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Re: Questions, Questions! Got LOTS of them (at least 12!)

Post by btnben » Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:01 pm

Marietta

If wanting an answer to a question is considered "attitude" then I wholeheartedly agree that istj wanted an answer to his question. Where's the problem?

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Karl R
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Re: Questions, Questions! Got LOTS of them (at least 12!)

Post by Karl R » Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:05 pm

Hello istj04,

My name is Karl and I am the E-AA forums coordinator. I've edited the profanity out of your first post to this venue. I would also humbly suggest that if you are sincerely seeking answers to your questions that you tone it back a bit. Capital letters and exclamation points in a discussion forum indicate shouting. When you shout at us and throw the F bomb at us we become less inclined to have a conversation with you. In fact, if you spend some time reading here you will realize that this is not normal behavior for this venue.

Might I suggest that instead of coming into E-AA's discussion forum ready for a fight you might do the normal human thing of introducing yourself, letting us know who you are so that we can get to know you. That's how people tend to start off a productive conversation.

regards,

Karl R----E-AA discussion forums coordinator

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marietta
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Re: Questions, Questions! Got LOTS of them (at least 12!)

Post by marietta » Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:10 pm

"If wanting an answer to a question is considered "attitude" then I wholeheartedly agree that istj wanted an answer to his question. Where's the problem?"

Asked and answered.

marietta
"There can be nothing more frequent than an occasional drink." ~ Oscar Wilde

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Re: Questions, Questions! Got LOTS of them (at least 12!)

Post by btnben » Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:12 pm

Is this AA?

I work with newly released young offenders and alcohol/drug abuse is a big problem. Is this site AA endorsed? Is there anyone on here who will actually answer a question? Could you give me the address (either electronic or postal) for AA in the UK. I think they should be informed that this refusal to answer questions is going on.

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