AA's HIGH FAILURE RATE

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TheOrangeCrush
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AA's HIGH FAILURE RATE

Post by TheOrangeCrush »

Why is AA used in 98% of all rehab centers when it has a 3.8% failure rate. It just doesn't make sense to me. How could you ever expect someone to stay sober when you tell them they're powerless. The facts don't lie. Spontaneous recovery is more successful then AA.

TheOrangeCrush
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Re: AA's HIGH FAILURE RATE

Post by TheOrangeCrush »

I mean 3.8% success rate

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marietta
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Re: AA's HIGH FAILURE RATE

Post by marietta »

Whenever someone posts a statistic here, it's imperative that the source be credited. Can you say where you heard what our success rate is? Can you name and verify a program with any better success rate?

You write as if you believe it's the simplest thing in the world to just man-up or woman-up and quit drinking. Success rates may be lower than hoped, but for me it has been 100%. I share my ES&H with those who are interested in listening. I don't waste time with snipers.

marietta
"There can be nothing more frequent than an occasional drink." ~ Oscar Wilde

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PaigeB
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Re: AA's HIGH FAILURE RATE

Post by PaigeB »

Thanks Marietta! I Like ES&H - works for me one day at a time. Treatment or detox facilities offer short term solutions to a life long problem. It is good they introduce AA meetings. I didn't go to treatment, and I use AA day to day so I can stay sober and relatively sane. Count me in the 2% (if that is what it is)

I think the stats are skewed because we don't keep records in AA - so who is to say? Had dinner last Thursday with 3 gals - 2 with 20 years and the other with 26. I have nearly 2. One day at a time.
Cling to the thought that, in God's hands, the dark past is the greatest possession you have - the key to life and happiness for others. With it you can avert death and misery for them. page 124 BB

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marietta
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Re: AA's HIGH FAILURE RATE

Post by marietta »

What is "spontaneous recovery"? Is this when the drunk who has lost his house, his cars, his job, his wife, his children, his faith, and 89% of his liver decides one day to put on a suit and tie and goes forth to secure another, better job? Is this the day he makes a date with his estranged family to go to Disneyland that weekend, then the following Monday pencils in a liver transplant, all to be paid for in cash from the slush fund he put up in the closet by saving pennies on the dollar buying cheap vodka throughout the previous 18 years?

Or is "spontaneous recovery" when the aforementioned drunk simply explodes and his family is forced to pick up the pieces?

marietta
"There can be nothing more frequent than an occasional drink." ~ Oscar Wilde

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Marc L
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Re: AA's HIGH FAILURE RATE

Post by Marc L »

marietta wrote:Or is "spontaneous recovery" when the aforementioned drunk simply explodes and his family is forced to pick up the pieces?

marietta
No Dear;
That is spontaneous combustion...
And there usually is some sort of catalyst or a powerful unseen outside force involved in the process.

Marc
Recovery won't just happen by Osmosis. You gonna' have to work at it some.
12th Step work ain't just a job... It's an Adventure.

happycamper
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Re: AA's HIGH FAILURE RATE

Post by happycamper »

Excuse me, but I dont see whats so important about an AA failure rate?

And I dont know why rehabs use the program of AA. Ive never been to a rehab. But I have been going to AA mtgs and working its program for the past 6+ yrs, and best I can tell, Im a success , as well as many other AAers I know :D .

May God bless you!
Faith without works is dead

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leejosepho
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Re: AA's HIGH FAILURE RATE

Post by leejosepho »

TheOrangeCrush wrote:Why is AA used in 98% of all rehab centers when it has a 3.8% success rate. It just doesn't make sense to me. How could you ever expect someone to stay sober when you tell them they're powerless.
You make a good point there, and that is why our Basic Text does not include any kind of suggestion to "Don't drink". But as to rehab centers, I think there is more of something else making things rather difficult for everyone there:

"Highly competent psychiatrists who have dealt with us have found it sometimes impossible to persuade an alcoholic to discuss his situation without reserve ...
"But the ex-problem drinker who has found this solution, who is properly armed with [certain medical] facts about himself, can generally win the entire confidence of another alcoholic in a few hours. Until such an understanding is reached, little or nothing can be accomplished.
"That the man who is making the approach has had the same difficulty, that he obviously knows what he is talking about, that his whole deportment shouts at the new prospect that he is a man with a real answer, that he has no attitude of Holier Than Thou, nothing whatever except the sincere desire to be helpful; that there are no fees to pay, no axes to grind, no people to please, no lectures to be endured - these are the conditions we have found most effective. After such an approach many take up their beds and walk again." (page 18-19)

So, and even though we have no monopoly on anything, the ideas of "it takes one to know one" and "it takes one to help one" or "one alcoholic helping another seems to be 'the best for the most'" surely do play into there somewhere. Beyond that, however, maybe too many people are ending up in rehab centers via some kind of intervention -- court-ordered and such -- than because they actually even *want* help in the first place ...

... and I think it might be safe to say most of us here know better than to try that kind of thing on anyone. Overall, however, and no matter where the medical folks might be getting their information and/or "programs" to try to sell, I believe we have still more insight here:

"Continue to speak of alcoholism as an illness, a fatal malady. Talk about the conditions of body and mind which accompany it. Keep his attention focussed mainly on your personal experience. Explain that many are doomed who never realize their predicament. Doctors are rightly loath to tell alcoholic patients the whole story unless it will serve some good purpose. But you may talk to him about the hopelessness of alcoholism because you offer a solution." (page 92, emphasis added)

Hence, and especially since "spirituality" typically goes on out the window whenever money changes hands anyway, it makes complete sense to me that rehabs can only try to pass things along as best they might be able to even understand them and to them offer "solutions" modeled after second-hand experiences compiled by their resident "program coordinators" ...

No wonder, eh?! :wink:
=======================
"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
("Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill, emphasis added)
=======================

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frnd.of.billw
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Re: AA's HIGH FAILURE RATE

Post by frnd.of.billw »

Hi, I'm Sandra and I'm an alcoholic.
Orange Crush, do you want to be part of the statistic that makes up the "successful" rate? Or do you simply want to be on the sidelines looking for something negative to bring to meetings? For myself, I prefer to think positively, work the program, and share my ES&H. Do you care to join us? I hope so.

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Marc L
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Re: AA's HIGH FAILURE RATE

Post by Marc L »

happycamper wrote:Excuse me, but I dont see whats so important about an AA failure rate?

And I dont know why rehabs use the program of AA. Ive never been to a rehab. But I have been going to AA mtgs and working its program for the past 6+ yrs, and best I can tell, Im a success , as well as many other AAers I know :D .

May God bless you!
The Treatment center I went to introduces individuals to Step One.
Powerlessness and Unmanagability are discussed to begin the recovery process.
The Steps are the program of AA.

Marc
Recovery won't just happen by Osmosis. You gonna' have to work at it some.
12th Step work ain't just a job... It's an Adventure.

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jakpar
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Re: AA's HIGH FAILURE RATE

Post by jakpar »

its works if you work it! :)
Jack

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Steven F
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Re: AA's HIGH FAILURE RATE

Post by Steven F »

Housekeeping notice: a thread with the same topic was moved from the newcomer corner to here, and the posts were brought together.

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Marc L
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Re: AA's HIGH FAILURE RATE

Post by Marc L »

Hmmm...
Mergers and aquisitions. :D
This is new, They can't be allowed to do that. :lol:

Marc
Recovery won't just happen by Osmosis. You gonna' have to work at it some.
12th Step work ain't just a job... It's an Adventure.

Steven F
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Re: AA's HIGH FAILURE RATE

Post by Steven F »

Next I'll be bringing all your posts together into one big thread :twisted:.

Just kidding of course, in so far this disclaimer is needed...

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Marc L
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Re: AA's HIGH FAILURE RATE

Post by Marc L »

Steven F wrote:Next I'll be bringing all your posts together into one big thread :twisted:.

Just kidding of course, in so far this disclaimer is needed...
Go ahead, I dare ya!
Bring back some old ones too... From the great big bit bucket in the sky.
Just a thought. :D
Recovery won't just happen by Osmosis. You gonna' have to work at it some.
12th Step work ain't just a job... It's an Adventure.

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