AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Blue Moon » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:24 pm

Patsy© wrote:What is the GSO number?


You would have to ask our treasurer, or the group's founder. But why is that relevant? All you need to know is that e-AA has a GSO #.

I am curious, what is "Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group"? Its not part of AA, is this site affiliated with this software company?

phpBB is open-source forums software. No, e-AA is not affiliated with phpBB. No more than your f2f group is affiliated with the St Barnabus Church or whatever that's written on the meeting wall.

The Online Intergroup that you speak of, doesn't have any AA groups online that they mention, they do have many AA meetings online that they post the web addresses to.

Yes. Like a f2f Intergroup, they publish the meetings that their groups host.

An AA group is local is registered so that they are part of AAWS..

Again, you are denying the 3rd Tradition. Get your head out of whatever nonsense told you that a group "must" be anything other than 2 or 3 alcoholics gathered for sobriety.
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Blue Moon » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:28 pm

Patsy© wrote:4th Edition wasn't out of date! lol.....Modem to Modem was the language back then, all computers had a modem.

Mine didn't. Most people of my acquaintance didn't. We were online, but not via a modem.
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Patsy© » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:09 pm

What is the GSO number?

You would have to ask our treasurer, or the group's founder. But why is that relevant? All you need to know is that e-AA has a GSO #.


The Groups Founder? Do you mean the website owner? I really didn't think that being asked or being aware of what the GSO number was, would be that much of a issue. We can walk into our face to face AA Group and just ask for the GSO number and get it. There is no AA Group founder at our AA Group meeting.

I am curious, what is "Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group"? Its not part of AA, is this site affiliated with this software company?
phpBB is open-source forums software. No, e-AA is not affiliated with phpBB. No more than your f2f group is affiliated with the St Barnabus Church or whatever that's written on the meeting wall.

An AA group is local is registered so that they are part of AAWS.

Again, you are denying the 3rd Tradition. Get your head out of whatever nonsense told you that a group "must" be anything other than 2 or 3 alcoholics gathered for sobriety.



Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an A.A. group, provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliation.

I believe that your leaving off half of it, may be the denial? Actually, no one told me, I have attended face to face AA 12 Traditions meetings for over 28 years, on a regular weekly basis. With many AA old timers who have been only too happy to pass on, what was passed to them....and so on and so on and so on!

The AA group, if affiliation begins... can move very easily from the church you speak of. So if the church decides that they want to hold a bingo game in the middle of the AA group meeting.... the AA Group is free to move immediately to a new location.

So, this site will be able to move immediately from phpBB? .... I think not because this very site and its forum is dependent upon that very software company, without the software company there would be no e-AA forums and with its affiliation, it would be a huge problem.

An AA group can bind itself to no one.. bye bye church if that happens. There is so much that is intertwined here at this website, that its hard to tell where the Forum begins and the Software company ends.

Good night, I am off to sleep... its past my bedtime! :lol:
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Mary » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:02 am

Who are these people who can't get to face to face meetings? Cant or won't? Why do they live so far from meetings that it's impossible to get to one? Is their primary purpose to stay sober or is it to live like a hermit tapping away on their computer? If they live near any industry in the western world there'll be an aa meeting they can get to. End of. Ill health? Tapping away on their computer all day will certainly lead to ill health.

Some people choose not to get to meetings so much after a period of sobriety. I get that and accept it. I know a wheel chair bound man who is regular at meetings I go to who has all sorts of things wrong with him but it doesn't stop him getting his life blood.
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Patsy© » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:44 am

Mary wrote:Who are these people who can't get to face to face meetings? Cant or won't? Why do they live so far from meetings that it's impossible to get to one? Is their primary purpose to stay sober or is it to live like a hermit tapping away on their computer? If they live near any industry in the western world there'll be an aa meeting they can get to. End of. Ill health? Tapping away on their computer all day will certainly lead to ill health.

Some people choose not to get to meetings so much after a period of sobriety. I get that and accept it. I know a wheel chair bound man who is regular at meetings I go to who has all sorts of things wrong with him but it doesn't stop him getting his life blood.


Hi Mary,

Regardless of what it may sound like, I am not opposed to AA members attending AA meetings online. The online AA meetings are a God send for those who are disabled or housebound for whatever reason. There have been people in our own AA group face to face who have used the online AA meetings when they had surgery and couldn't get to the AA meeting face to face. What I am opposed to is websites that insist that because the use the AA name, that makes them part of the AA Service Structure....which it doesn't. AA meetings can literally be held anywhere, on top of a roof if that is chosen, on the beach or on a mountain top.... but that doesn't make them an AA Group.

However, I do agree that most can get to face to face AA meetings and simply choose not too, which is their choice. However, I am with you, lets not pretend that AA online is the same as attending AA face to face meetings, there is truly no comparison. I also agree with you that sitting in front of a computer and tapping all day long is very unhealthy for anyone, but for the AA member or others with Untreated Alcoholism... that activity can be unhealthy to the extreme. I have seen that tapping all day long turn into another addiction, an internet addiction, which is equally horrendous. We have AA members in our own AA group that have that addiction and its not pretty, some have lost all under the excuse that they are IN Recovery working the Program!

At our AA home group, we have taken an AA Group inventory face to face on a regular basis and it has turned up some rather surprising things, one of those things is how uninformed some AA members are who are online "thinking" they are at an Alcoholics Anonymous Group and working the Program of AA just by logging on. They don't know about how AA as a whole functions, or how AA Groups function and they are not informed about the 12 Traditions, the 12 Concepts and they don't want to be. They believe that simply being online is what Recovery is about. That couldn't be further from the truth, but to those who attend face to face once a month, online the rest of the time, they are not informed and don't want to be. That is really sad.
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Patsy© » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:55 am

4th Edition wasn't out of date! lol.....Modem to Modem was the language back then, all computers had a modem.

Mine didn't. Most people of my acquaintance didn't. We were online, but not via a modem.


The Living Cyber Committee (LLC) was formed in March 1994 to coordinate the hosting of the hospitality suite at the 1995 International Convention in San Diego.

In those pre-mobile phone days you had to use your landline for broadband access.

Google launched in January 1996. It registered its domain name Sept. 15, 1997 and was incorporated Sept. 4, 1998.
I don’t know how you got on the internet, but people used dial-up Internet connections then, 56Kbps modems didn't arrive until 1997.

In 2017, the days of dial-up are long gone for most Americans, however, 2.1 million people use AOL’s dial-up service to get on the internet and millions of offices still in 2017, use fax machines, from doctors to entertainment companies.

The fax machine may seem like an artifact of the ’80s and ’90s, but they’re still popular in professional offices even now in 2017. Simply put, more people have access to a telephone than the internet, meaning a fax machine is always going to be an option for someone. In banks to doctors’ offices, faxing remains a normal form of communication.

If you don't mind me asking, if you didn't use a modem in 1994, what was it that you used to access the internet?
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Mary » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:43 am

Hi Patsy,

I thought I picked you up correctly and regardless of what it may sound like I also am not opposed to members attending meetings online. I do not attend online meetings I log in to an Alcoholics Anonymous Discussion forum from time to time (like now) which I do NOT believe is the same thing as attending an aa meeting. I am aware there are live formats that probably resemble face to face formats in the way virtual sex is just like the real thing. Perhaps we do differ in some respects but I did not think you were saying the same thing as I went on to say. :-)

And I do accept that online 'meetings' may be a God send in cases where a person truly can't get to a meeting but I think the culture we live in is deeply enabling of isolating behaviour in the pursuit of individualism.
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Brock » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:45 am

In trying to make their point some really sink their teeth into a subject and won't let go, fair enough I respect the passion. What is not fair is spouting all sorts of ridiculous things, that show a lack of knowledge about how online sites are operated. And also not reading what others say, or if they do disregarding it.

For example, Patsy said in response to me -”Some don't attend for the same reason you don't.” In recent posts I have things like this - “...I go to one or two per week myself...my one or two meetings a week now is primarily for that purpose...I always say I enjoy meetings now, and attend at least one per week...I just go a couple of times a week because I enjoy telling others about it...My routine now includes one or two meetings per week...”

Five statements in the last few weeks, probably hundreds since I joined here, read what others are saying, keep calm don't exaggerate, we are discussing not arguing.

Mary said -
I know a wheel chair bound man who is regular at meetings I go to who has all sorts of things wrong with him but it doesn't stop him getting his life blood.

This is exactly the sort of thing I have said here countless times, gave me one of many excuses to turn my back on AA over the years. We all know that at first sitting on hard chairs with second rate coffee, usually nervous like hell, is no fun, we look for differences and excuses to not come back. We don't know or believe that a wonderful life lies ahead if we do what these folks say. The scrolls on the walls have some intimating looking steps we must do to recover, if we really need sobriety we say I think I can, I think I can. Just then someone with “all sorts of things wrong with him,” struggling in his wheel chair comes in, and someone says “it doesn't stop him getting his life blood.” I would be out of there in a flash, I am not doing all those steps which promise recovery, then even if I become cripple I will have to come here for 'lifeblood,' what a weak program these people are trying to offer me!

It was one old timer the last time I tried AA who saved my neck, when he spoke he said 'I enjoy a couple of meetings a week now, I come because I like to share what I found.' Now I say something similar, that's my experience, and it's a whole lot less off putting, than giving the impression that they will have to commit to a certain amount of meetings per week.
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Mary » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:07 am

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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Mary » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:09 am

[quote="Mary"]Brock,

In my experience, bad coffee is a thing of the past. Meetings I attend offer filtered. There is also herb tea. Admittedly, the seats are XXXX but they help to keep me awake by sitting up straight. Thanks for calling the wheelchair bound man a cripple. Hilarious ...he calls himself one too. I used the word lifeblood and I can see how I may have made it sound a morose affair. In truth, he is cheerful and happy and comes I believe for the community of fellowship, not because his programme is weak but his programme IS coming to meetings.

There are truly sick people. Yes there are, I know. BUT there are also a lot of people suffering from what I reckon are illnesses that are direct offsprings of untreated alcoholism...there's new names for them every few months. And they just love excuses to not go to meetings. Because face to face meetings are sooo much harder and more challenging than this online malarky. But they are also so much more rewarding.
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Patsy© » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:15 am

In trying to make their point some really sink their teeth into a subject and won't let go, fair enough I respect the passion. What is not fair is spouting all sorts of ridiculous things, that show a lack of knowledge about how online sites are operated. And also not reading what others say, or if they do disregarding it.


The above is humorous, coming from someone who claims to have a Service Position here at this site and yet all you do Brock is make negative comments on those who you choose too. Why not share your own ES&H.... because it gets really tiring to watch what you do here in place of what a genuine Service Position is really about.

What is not fair is spouting all sorts of ridiculous things, that show a lack of knowledge about how online sites are operated.

I do know quite a bit about how online sites are operated, what I think is that most online sites who use the AA name, do it with a direct break in AA Traditions. At 10 years sober I became convinced that online was just as good as Face to Face, I was a moderator at what was a site who used the AA name and had online meetings".....only to learn after one year, that it most certainly is NOT just as good and in fact, it wasn't healthy at all....and thank God that I didn't drink and got back to AA face to face.
And if I know, understand and practice how face to face AA Groups operate, then I am being a responsible and accountable AA Group member. Staying online only, brought IT ALL BACK....the anger, the insanity, the anxious, irritable and discontent feelings, living in my own head just listening to the committee yack at me. Finally, one of the AA members at that site, strongly suggested that I wasn't the same AA member who came to the site one year earlier....Yes, that AA member was so correct, but I couldn't see it, until I put my butt back into the seat at our AA home group face to face.

Yes, I Remember When.....and it wasn't healthy, it was insidious and it wasn't recovery.


And it's a whole lot less off putting, than giving the impression that they will have to commit to a certain amount of meetings per week.


Not sure where you saw that I said that? But it doesn't surprise me when you are misreading and the misinformation is attributed to me! lol
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby clouds » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:25 am

I'm surprised that people aren't aware that there are very very many places in the world where AA meeings just aren't available.
Large urban areas, cities even, may have a few meetings, but outside these inner city meetings, most countries just don't have AA groups.
Another thing I found out when I was living and studying in Italy was that the meetings I finally located were actually run by psychologists. They were listed as real AA and were often held in sanatoriums or psychiatric rehabilitation units, and strictly managed by a 'leader'. These are nothing like real AA.
No one knows anything about the traditions in most groups.
As a foreigner, with less than perfect language skills you can imagine approaching such groups and trying to tell them they have got it all wrong! :lol:
I read what is becoming of AA meetings in North America and other english speaking places. It sounds not so good, but its much better than what is happening here.
The e-AA forum is enabeling me to have some contact with english speakers who are actively practicing the 12 steps of recovery from alcoholism.
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Patsy© » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:26 am

Mary wrote:
Mary wrote:Brock,

In my experience, bad coffee is a thing of the past. Meetings I attend offer filtered. There is also herb tea. Admittedly, the seats are XXXX but they help to keep me awake by sitting up straight. Thanks for calling the wheelchair bound man a cripple. Hilarious ...he calls himself one too. I used the word lifeblood and I can see how I may have made it sound a morose affair. In truth, he is cheerful and happy and comes I believe for the community of fellowship, not because his programme is weak but his programme IS coming to meetings.

There are truly sick people. Yes there are, I know. BUT there are also a lot of people suffering from what I reckon are illnesses that are direct offsprings of untreated alcoholism...there's new names for them every few months. And they just love excuses to not go to meetings. Because face to face meetings are sooo much harder and more challenging than this online malarky. But they are also so much more rewarding.


I absolutely agree with you Mary, and to be able to understand what you shared above, one would have to be attending AA meetings face to face. Its very difficult for those who do online only to understand what you have shared.

Untreated alcoholism is just that and the simple truth is what you shared....that face to face AA meetings are so much harder and more challenging than online, because at face to face, they will not only call one on their BS, but they will also help one to Recover from their BS. And that is so much more rewarding for sure!
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Patsy© » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:44 am

Mary wrote:Hi Patsy,

I thought I picked you up correctly and regardless of what it may sound like I also am not opposed to members attending meetings online. I do not attend online meetings I log in to an Alcoholics Anonymous Discussion forum from time to time (like now) which I do NOT believe is the same thing as attending an aa meeting. I am aware there are live formats that probably resemble face to face formats in the way virtual sex is just like the real thing. Perhaps we do differ in some respects but I did not think you were saying the same thing as I went on to say. :-)

And I do accept that online 'meetings' may be a God send in cases where a person truly can't get to a meeting but I think the culture we live in is deeply enabling of isolating behaviour in the pursuit of individualism.


I hear you Mary and its AA members like yourself who I respect because you carry the message of HOPE to newcomers....up close and personal.

And yes we do live in a deeply enabling culture of isolating behavior. And it was passed on to me at my first week in AA face to face, that isolation KILLS drunks, particularly those with untreated alcoholism.

Thank you Mary for being YOU....and for being a Responsible AA member who is passing on the truth, it is really appreciated.

How vital it is to understand that the 12 Traditions are in order for a reason. Its no mistake that Tradition One shares with us about the very survival of Alcoholics Anonymous.

Tradition One - Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon A.A. unity.


The unity of Alcoholics Anonymous is the most cherished quality our Society has. Our lives, the lives of all to come, depend squarely upon it. We stay whole, or A.A. dies.
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby clouds » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:57 am

I haven't found that isolation kills sober alcoholics, myself included.

I went to AA meetings very frequently my first 10 years of sobriety, Circumstances changed my life, beyond my control and I was hardpressed after that to get to one a week for the next 10 years. After that things again changed, not my doing and I was then able to get to three or four a week in Rome where I studied for four years. That was very nice.
After that it was usually two a week for many years. But then again strange events and a second husband and europe and meetings just weren't available all the time. So we started our own 12 step group that meets 5 days a week.

People never know how their lives will change or where they might be led, so its best to get a really firm grip of the 12 steps of recovery in early years and get to tons of meetings and a sponsor who has done the steps and do those well at the very beginning. Dependence on a higher power is better than dependence on a group.
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