AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Brock » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:13 am

Why not share your own ES&H

Please read my last post again, that's what I did. And when some people find the points they made in a discussion looking weak in light of new information, they say the others points are humorous, and pass insults like “online malarky,”or not good at service. These discussions can get 'warm' at times which is fine, but I will not be part of spitting insults about others groups or service commitments, it's the low blows of a looser.

If those making these comments, would look at what others have written right here in current threads, and in countless older threads, the tremendous amount of encouragement newcomers have received to attend live meetings, get a sponsor, etc. So many come here nervous about that first meeting, their anonymity and other fears, and get sterling advise and encouragement from some lovely folks here. So many of those you see in your meetings for the first time, who may not have summoned up the courage where it not for members here, and in other groups like this. Speaking badly of something which has assisted so many to come through AA's doors is just ignorance.

Clouds gave a bit of her experience, but still some will not think of those people in other parts of the world, or even in isolated areas of their own country, or neighbors like Canada, not everybody has the facilities you have, try thinking of others!
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Patsy© » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:19 am

clouds wrote:I haven't found that isolation kills sober alcoholics, myself included.

I went to AA meetings very frequently my first 10 years of sobriety, Circumstances changed my life, beyond my control and I was hardpressed after that to get to one a week for the next 10 years. After that things again changed, not my doing and I was then able to get to three or four a week in Rome where I studied for four years. That was very nice.
After that it was usually two a week for many years. But then again strange events and a second husband and europe and meetings just weren't available all the time. So we started our own 12 step group that meets 5 days a week.

People never know how their lives will change or where they might be led, so its best to get a really firm grip of the 12 steps of recovery in early years and get to tons of meetings and a sponsor who has done the steps and do those well at the very beginning. Dependence on a higher power is better than dependence on a group.


You seem to be under the understanding that I am saying that AA online meetings are bad. If you read what I actually wrote, I do not believe they are bad, however they can not compare to or replace face to face AA Group meetings. I was sharing my own Experience, Strength and Hope about being online "only"... and it was a horrible experience for this drunk. And for many many others who learned the hard way, by picking up that first sucker drink. I didn't have to do that, Thank God!

Dependence on an AA group, can be the very first Higher Power that a newcomer finds and is much healthier than sitting in front of a computer, isolating in ones own head and listening to the insanity that sets one up for a drink, because the newcomer has No Defense against the first drink....... and that is the simple truth Group Of Drunks.

And depending on an AA group face to face is so much healthier than telling newcomers to keep coming to an online site. Most people here at this site, unlike you clouds, can actually get to a face to face AA meeting in their area. And if they can't, then more power to the AA online meetings that help those people to feel "part of" and not "apart from".
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Patsy© » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:25 am

Brock wrote:
Why not share your own ES&H

Please read my last post again, that's what I did. And when some people find the points they made in a discussion looking weak in light of new information, they say the others points are humorous, and pass insults like “online malarky,”or not good at service. These discussions can get 'warm' at times which is fine, but I will not be part of spitting insults about others groups or service commitments, it's the low blows of a looser.

If those making these comments, would look at what others have written right here in current threads, and in countless older threads, the tremendous amount of encouragement newcomers have received to attend live meetings, get a sponsor, etc. So many come here nervous about that first meeting, their anonymity and other fears, and get sterling advise and encouragement from some lovely folks here. So many of those you see in your meetings for the first time, who may not have summoned up the courage where it not for members here, and in other groups like this. Speaking badly of something which has assisted so many to come through AA's doors is just ignorance.

Clouds gave a bit of her experience, but still some will not think of those people in other parts of the world, or even in isolated areas of their own country, or neighbors like Canada, not everybody has the facilities you have, try thinking of others!


Sorry, I don't see it, here you are again making comments on what I have shared, what Mary has shared, what Clouds has shared.... and here again, your insults, disguised of who knows? not everybody has the facilities you have, try thinking of others! .... Brock, you seem to be unable to read what I have shared without putting your own spin on it. Good Luck with that.

I actually have plans for this afternoon, so see you all later! :D
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Noels » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:12 pm

Sjoh guys. ....
Thinking about myself and my own recovery I would say that for a newcomer it's good to attend f2f meetings right in the beginning since on an online forum we don't know who we are trusting with our lives and whether the intention of the person who we are speaking with is good. Also, the one time that I really honestly thought of drinking I didn't think 'AA' no, I thought 'phone. .. name ' and get help. So it was the actual people ( members ) who helped keep me sober in the beginning, not the letters AA. Around 6 months sober though I left that group - you all know my story. I couldn't find another group with whom I felt comfortable with so I joined e-aa and have been here ever since. Sober at 22 months with very little f2f meeting attendance. As a matter of fact, I realised today that I probably replaced f2f meetings with the online forum and since I've been more active here than anywhere else responding to posts, helping the still suffering alcoholic and sharing probably serves as my 'service ' and since I haven't really attended many f2f meetings, this would probably be my home group.
Actually. ... if I'm not mistaken I even called 'e-aa ' my home group or group in some posts last year.
So in all honesty - looking at my own experience - I'd say we could probably stay sober, do service AND keep growing spiritually by either online group - with me up to about 6 months attending 2 meetings a week - and thereafter even less f2f meetings.
Please remember this is my personal experience. I can't speak for anyone else.
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Blue Moon » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:49 pm

Patsy© wrote:The Groups Founder? Do you mean the website owner? I really didn't think that being asked or being aware of what the GSO number was, would be that much of a issue. We can walk into our face to face AA Group and just ask for the GSO number and get it. There is no AA Group founder at our AA Group meeting.


I mean the group's (co-)founder, Dean, who's still a member of this group. The guy who started the group and got the registration number. Every group has a couple or so people who started it, otherwise it would never have started. The person who sent in the forms to GSO, and got their reply with a number, would have the info.

If your group has no founder member, it simply means they left the group since starting it.

Most people who walk into an AA meeting have no need nor desire to know what it's GSO number is, because the number is totally irrelevant to recovery from alcoholism. Unless you're going to become the Treasurer, you don't need the number.

So you can ask e-AA's Treasurer. They're available at e-aa.org/form_officer_contact.php?officer=Treasurer

So, this site will be able to move immediately from phpBB? .... I think not because this very site and its forum is dependent upon that very software company


Maybe you need to stop thinking so much.

This site is not dependent on phpBB. In fact, for quite a few years we did not use phpBB, we used some other software. We moved to phpBB when that software went end-of-life. If phpBB ceases to function, we can easily port e-AA's discussion forums to another open-source provider of forums software.

We also have whole venues at e-AA Group which don't use phpBB at all. e-AA Group has live-chat AA meetings, and email AA meetings, neither of which are remotely connected to this forum venue.
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Blue Moon » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:57 pm

Mary wrote:Who are these people who can't get to face to face meetings? Cant or won't? Why do they live so far from meetings that it's impossible to get to one?


If you were to join our 12-Step Outreach team, you'd soon learn that we get people from all countries over the world. Some are English-speaking people who live in a country where English-speaking meetings are not available. Some live in remote parts where no meeting of any language is available. Some are house-bound. Some are wheelchair-bound.

I do agree that too many people don't go out of their front door to a local meeting because they won't, rather than can't. But the contempt prior to investigation being displayed in this thread is quite eye-opening. I suggest the Moderators move this thread to "If it doesn't fit anywhere else", because it certainly has nothing to do with Recovery Discussion.
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby desypete » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:00 pm

online aa can be a great aid for anyone in recovery and a first port of call for those whos drinking is starting to cause them a problem

the problem is that for me it took me a long time to find balance in my life, and in my early years i was always wanting to do everything to extremes

computers and games playing were a huge problem for me as i found i could escape life on a computer which suited me just fine as i didnt have to do anything other than sit in front of a screen all day long or however long i could get away with

today i have much more balance in my life so i can come online have a few rants or maybe pass on a bit of help, i can play games and turn the pc off and go and do other important things like see to my family, get to a meeting, help a new comer or go for a game of snooker or out for a meal etc

most new comers will always look for an easier softer way, when i was first in aa and getting to meetings day and night as that was the only place i felt safe, i had to catch trains or busses or get a lift or even walk to meetings
i used to say to people i can not get to some meetings as there to far away for me and i dont have a car

the replys i would get from aa members were very blunt lol
but the upshot was if there was a party and booze on offer i would certainly find a way to get there, so to i had to put that same amount of effort into trying to get sober and recovery
i could make excuses till the cows come home but in aa we dont do excuses
if you want what we have and are PREPARED to go to any lengths etc if not dont waste my time

what a rude lot they are in aa but they are so so right
some members get sober then sit in a curve of sobriety of there own making and simpley dont wish to push themselves anymore as there sober now and there life is ok as it is they are still are not interested in putting the wives or family first its still all about them so they dont even bother doing anything to help anyone in aa or out of aa

they can sit happy at home and use there pc as there means of escape rather than sit with a bunch of drunks who say it how it is, they can hide there lack of change and mask being sober online

but anyway that is there own problem should they wish it the doors of aa are always open and no one is forced to go to meetings

like i say for me its all about balance i can take or leave the pc and online its not a problem for me but i can fully understand the view that new comers will latch to it online and not really have to do anything or put any effort in other than to log on
it really is not enough or thats how i would see it

but its certainly a good aid for those in recovery to keep in touch, for those suffering from hard times to keep in touch with sober members and for new comers to have a peep at what is going on
but i would always suggest face to face meetings for anyone no matter how long they have been sober, i am 12 years sober but i still need my meetings without which i can not live other than live with my own head which leads me into trouble time and time again

i would of thought that a certain member of this site who always seems to end up in arguments with others would by now be asking himself or his sponsor why is it that he finds himself arguing all the time with people ?

when i point my finger at others there are always more fingers pointing right back at me for some reason =biggrin just i dont see it hence i need my sponsor who does see it and is able to help me open my own eyes
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Patsy© » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:47 am

So, this site will be able to move immediately from phpBB? .... I think not because this very site and its forum is dependent upon that very software company



Maybe you need to stop thinking so much.

This site is not dependent on phpBB. In fact, for quite a few years we did not use phpBB, we used some other software. We moved to phpBB when that software went end-of-life. If phpBB ceases to function, we can easily port e-AA's discussion forums to another open-source provider of forums software.


Right, and if the site crashed? If the Server crashed? Yes, exactly! :lol: Its obvious that this site is dependent on a company to keep it running. And for those who are disabled and/or are housebound for whatever reason.... its a God Send.

God gave us brains to use and I "think" because I have choices today, Thank God!

I asked questions at our Face to Face AA Group and I got answers! Imagine that, we actually have answers.
Like for instance, when I brought this to them yesterday for some information on why we want to know our GSO number for this AA Group, and what is the importance of that? This is the answer I got.

Perhaps thinking is something that you might want to take up? :lol:


Most groups in the United States and Canada choose to be linked to A.A. as a whole by listing the group with the General Service Office (G.S.O.), as well as with the Area Assembly, district and local central/intergroup office.
(1)Groups listed with G.S.O. have either General Service Representatives (G.S.R.s), or “group contacts,” who act as channels for two-way information and shared experience. Once a group is listed with G.S.O., the group information is shared with the Area Assembly via the delegate. Group information may be first received by the Area, which then shares the information with G.S.O.

What’s the point? Each group linked to the local general service structure is automatically a part of the “group conscience” of A.A. in Canada and the U.S. through their G.S.R.’s participation in district meetings and Area Assembly.
Each G.S.R. communicates his or her group’s “conscience” on important matters of policy considered by the district and Area Assembly. During the Annual General Service Conference, the Area’s groups are represented by their elected delegate. Groups in our listings are included in the confidential domestic directories(2) published annually, which provide contact information for traveling A.A. members.

New groups listed with the General Service Office are assigned an identifying service number (ID),(3) receive a “Group Handbook” (through their G.S.R. or group contact), and are included in mailings sent to all listed A.A. groups. For instance, groups receive our bimonthly newsletter Box 4-5-9 that keeps them informed on policies being considered by the Conference, changes to A.A. literature, and when and where their Regional Forum will be held (Forums are weekend gatherings where current experience is shared). Additionally, G.S.R.s or group contacts for listed groups receive registration details for each International Convention, held every five (5) years.

How? To participate in services provided by G.S.O. to A.A. groups, it is vital to furnish simple information to G.S.O. through the Alcoholics Anonymous New Group Form. To notify G.S.O. when group information changes, i.e. the group contact or G.S.R. moves or resigns, and a new G.S.R. or contact is elected; or, when there is a change in the group’s location or meeting day(s) and time, please use the Alcoholics Anonymous Group Information Change Form. Group changes should also be given to the Area registrar/secretary, and to the District Committee Member (D.C.M.).
A New Group: When a new group forms, the members usually take time to decide on the name of the new group,
(4) elect trusted servants, plan the time and format of meeting(s), and obtain A.A. literature from the nearby central/intergroup office.

A new group may first ask to be listed with the local district and Area, or through direct contact with G.S.O. Either way works well. When G.S.O. receives an Alcoholics Anonymous New Group Form, a copy is forwarded to the delegate of the Area where the group is located, so that the delegate may communicate the good news to the D.C.M. and Area registrar/secretary. Thirty (30) days after group information is sent to the delegate, the group is assigned an ID number for G.S.O.’s records, and a “Group Handbook” is mailed to the G.S.R. or group contact.

Your District: Regardless of how new group information is received, the D.C.M. will make contact and welcome the group to “general service.”
Whether a group is “new” or has existed for years, the D.C.M. is the primary contact through the G.S.R. or group contact. Group representatives attend district meetings where they are kept up-to-date on A.A. activities and topics of interest. G.S.R.s attending district meetings are an excellent resource for addressing group problems and concerns. In matters affecting A.A. as a whole, a group’s “conscience” is communicated to the Area Assembly by their G.S.R.
If you do not know how to contact your group’s D.C.M., Area registrar/secretary, and delegate, staff members in the General Service Office can often provide that information.

G.S.O. staff members are always happy to hear from A.A. members and groups. G.S.O. has two primary purposes: 1) to serve as a resource to better enable groups to carry the A.A. message of experience, strength and hope to the still-suffering alcoholic; and, 2) to provide services to A.A. as a whole which individual groups cannot usually manage, such as the publication of A.A. literature. The A.A. group is the fundamental unit supporting A.A. recovery.

(1) To participate fully, a group lists itself 1) with the general service structure (G.S.O., Area and District); and, 2) with the local intergroup/central office.

(2) Domestic directories are: Eastern U.S., Western U.S. and Canadian. Each group is identified by city or town, Area and district, group name, meeting day(s), and G.S.R.’s or contact’s name and phone number. Alternate G.S.R.s or contacts are also listed. Directories are widely used by traveling members, so only groups that provide a G.S.R. or contact’s telephone number are listed.

(3) Once an ID number is assigned and becomes part of a group’s record, the number remains with the group and is not usable by any other group.

(4) Guidelines for naming an A.A. group are based on “group conscience” as expressed through the Annual General Service Conference. “The A.A. Group” pamphlet, the basic guide for all groups in Canada and the U.S., suggests that a group avoid choosing a name that might suggest affiliation with any organization, club, political or religious institution. New groups are also advised to avoid names that refer to “family,” “double trouble,” “alcohol and pills” or the name of any actual person, living or dead.” (“The A.A. Group” pamphlet is available at central or intergroup offices or through G.S.O.)
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Patsy© » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:57 am

desypete wrote:online aa can be a great aid for anyone in recovery and a first port of call for those whos drinking is starting to cause them a problem

the problem is that for me it took me a long time to find balance in my life, and in my early years i was always wanting to do everything to extremes

computers and games playing were a huge problem for me as i found i could escape life on a computer which suited me just fine as i didnt have to do anything other than sit in front of a screen all day long or however long i could get away with

today i have much more balance in my life so i can come online have a few rants or maybe pass on a bit of help, i can play games and turn the pc off and go and do other important things like see to my family, get to a meeting, help a new comer or go for a game of snooker or out for a meal etc

most new comers will always look for an easier softer way, when i was first in aa and getting to meetings day and night as that was the only place i felt safe, i had to catch trains or busses or get a lift or even walk to meetings
i used to say to people i can not get to some meetings as there to far away for me and i dont have a car

the replys i would get from aa members were very blunt lol
but the upshot was if there was a party and booze on offer i would certainly find a way to get there, so to i had to put that same amount of effort into trying to get sober and recovery
i could make excuses till the cows come home but in aa we dont do excuses
if you want what we have and are PREPARED to go to any lengths etc if not dont waste my time

what a rude lot they are in aa but they are so so right
some members get sober then sit in a curve of sobriety of there own making and simpley dont wish to push themselves anymore as there sober now and there life is ok as it is they are still are not interested in putting the wives or family first its still all about them so they dont even bother doing anything to help anyone in aa or out of aa

they can sit happy at home and use there pc as there means of escape rather than sit with a bunch of drunks who say it how it is, they can hide there lack of change and mask being sober online

but anyway that is there own problem should they wish it the doors of aa are always open and no one is forced to go to meetings

like i say for me its all about balance i can take or leave the pc and online its not a problem for me but i can fully understand the view that new comers will latch to it online and not really have to do anything or put any effort in other than to log on
it really is not enough or thats how i would see it

but its certainly a good aid for those in recovery to keep in touch, for those suffering from hard times to keep in touch with sober members and for new comers to have a peep at what is going on
but i would always suggest face to face meetings for anyone no matter how long they have been sober, i am 12 years sober but i still need my meetings without which i can not live other than live with my own head which leads me into trouble time and time again

i would of thought that a certain member of this site who always seems to end up in arguments with others would by now be asking himself or his sponsor why is it that he finds himself arguing all the time with people ?

when i point my finger at others there are always more fingers pointing right back at me for some reason =biggrin just i dont see it hence i need my sponsor who does see it and is able to help me open my own eyes


Thank you Pete for not only being who you are, but for sharing the above Truth so eloquently. I deeply appreciate AA members, like yourself, who have been in AA a long time and its shows! Because what you have, can only be learned at face to face AA meetings and then passed on here, never the other way around. .... It is a gift to read what you post about face to face AA meetings, from your own ES&H and for that, I am so truly grateful.

Thank you for passing on the truth to newcomers, it is so vital, especially these days :)
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Blue Moon » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:15 am

Patsy© wrote:Right, and if the site crashed? If the Server crashed? Yes, exactly! :lol:


"Yes, exactly" what?

If your church basement flooded, your f2f would have to find another place. That's no different here.

Its obvious that this site is dependent on a company to keep it running.


No, it is not. We pay rent for server space. If the server or the organisation running it fails, or starts imposing unreasonable terms on us, we go rent somewhere else. We've done that before, also.

You are talking complete nonsense, and I suggest you either stop or leave.
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Patsy© » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:24 am

Blue Moon wrote:
Patsy© wrote:Right, and if the site crashed? If the Server crashed? Yes, exactly! :lol:


"Yes, exactly" what?

If your church basement flooded, your f2f would have to find another place. That's no different here.

Its obvious that this site is dependent on a company to keep it running.


No, it is not. We pay rent for server space. If the server or the organisation running it fails, or starts imposing unreasonable terms on us, we go rent somewhere else. We've done that before, also.

You are talking complete nonsense, and I suggest you either stop or leave.


"Yes, exactly" what?

If your church basement flooded, your f2f would have to find another place. That's no different here.


Actually, if our church basement flooded, the entire AA group would go and help them clean it up. Is that an option here? Its much different here, they simply get a message stating that the site had crashed and not know where to go!

And I could say the same about what you are talking, because I believe its complete nonsense. I began this thread, and all you have done is contributed negative stuff. I didn't realize that if someone here began a topic that they HAD to agree with you, or be chased for every post they make. :lol:

Since agreeing with you isn't an option for me, I will simply agree to disagree. For the administrator of this site, you seem very angry, judgmental and a bit silly to be honest.

This is a great example of why I attend Face to Face AA meetings!
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby clouds » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:15 am

I've noticed that for some people it can be easier to be disrepectful in written words than when sitting face to face with another human being.
Yet, all of us are real human beings who write here at e-AA, so lets try to be a little nicer, ok?
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Brock » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:46 am

This thread has been moved to “If It Doesn't Fit Anywhere Else,” and I am not sure it even belongs there.
I began this thread, and all you have done is contributed negative stuff. I didn't realize that if someone here began a topic that they HAD to agree with you, or be chased for every post they make.

Yes and in beginning the thread you had a purpose in mind, to convince everyone else that your view of online groups was the only valid one. It's called a discussion forum, what a stupid discussion it would be if someone said something, and everyone else just said yes yes I agree. What happens with normal adults, is we take what others say into account, maybe soften our position a little, in some discussions maybe the others change our minds completely.

This childishness about we would clean up the basement, and this site crashing and nobody would know where to go, while good hardworking people are counting the few dollars and cents contributed when the hat is passed, and discussing and implementing upgrades to keep things running smoothly here.

Not even a nod to the fact as pointed out, that sites like this provide yeomen service to those who are new, encouraging them to attend meetings if they are available, providing links to find them. So many of those who walk through the doors got their courage and directions to do so right here, but no, some people will not even say that's a good thing. It's like trying to have a discussion with a child, who every time you say something they put their hands over their ears.
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Patsy© » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:53 am

Brock wrote:This thread has been moved to “If It Doesn't Fit Anywhere Else,” and I am not sure it even belongs there.
I began this thread, and all you have done is contributed negative stuff. I didn't realize that if someone here began a topic that they HAD to agree with you, or be chased for every post they make.

Yes and in beginning the thread you had a purpose in mind, to convince everyone else that your view of online groups was the only valid one. It's called a discussion forum, what a stupid discussion it would be if someone said something, and everyone else just said yes yes I agree. What happens with normal adults, is we take what others say into account, maybe soften our position a little, in some discussions maybe the others change our minds completely.

This childishness about we would clean up the basement, and this site crashing and nobody would know where to go, while good hardworking people are counting the few dollars and cents contributed when the hat is passed, and discussing and implementing upgrades to keep things running smoothly here.

Not even a nod to the fact as pointed out, that sites like this provide yeomen service to those who are new, encouraging them to attend meetings if they are available, providing links to find them. So many of those who walk through the doors got their courage and directions to do so right here, but no, some people will not even say that's a good thing. It's like trying to have a discussion with a child, who every time you say something they put their hands over their ears.


Actually, I wasn't talking to you Brock. Do you need to always have something to say, even when its not addressed to you?

Perhaps you need to take Clouds suggestion?
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Patsy©
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Re: AA Groups and AA meetings....Necessary?

Postby Brock » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:38 am

In this case the suggestions and experience of former moderators and coordinators will be kept in mind, the topic is locked because it was going nowhere, and pointing fingers at who is right or wrong in an unproductive way

The original poster or anyone else is free to start another topic, on this or any other subject.
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Brock
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