Nothing but Nudge from the Judgers

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Nothing but Nudge from the Judgers

Postby michmjon » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:57 pm

I had a lot on my schedule yesterday, but wanted to catch a meeting so I went to the early Saturday AM meeting- my first time attending this particular group. I didn't recognize a single person there- just four other people. No one was making any moves to volunteer to lead the meeting so said I would and handed out the readings and passed the basket. No money was dropped in- just attendance logs, which I filled out quickly as one of the attendees was reading from the daily reflections. As I was reading the announcements, I passed back the slips. As soon as three of the four people got their slips, they stood up and walked straight out the door. The fourth looked at me, said "Well I guess that's that!" and got up and left also. Never had experienced that before- all four of them looked to be in their early 20's and looking at their sheets had been at multiple meetings. I was almost tempted to run out the door and stop them before they pulled out of the parking lot and demand their attendance sheets back so I could cross off the day's attendance! How would you deal with this? Opinions please!
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Re: Nothing but Nudge from the Judgers

Postby Noels » Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:32 pm

Good morning Mich :D I understand the feeling of sadness that they wouldn't at least stay for the meeting. What I would do from here on is to hand the attendance sheets back AFTER the meeting.
Since it is compulsory for them to attend it's only fair and reasonable they do so so I wouldn't look at my action in holding onto the attendance slip until after the meeting as 'forcing ' them. It's simply executing the courts wishes and hopefully by doing so they will hear something that resonate with them at some stage.
Apart from this remember we can only carry the message, not the alcoholic. At least by staying for the meeting they have a better chance to 'survive ' than before.
Since there was no one else there to lead it is possible that you were sent there for a reason so well done.
Goodluck and let us know what happens next week :D
Mwah xxx
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Re: Nothing but Nudge from the Judgers

Postby Spirit Flower » Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:22 am

I don't sign court sheets.
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Re: Nothing but Nudge from the Judgers

Postby avaneesh912 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:51 am

I filled out quickly as one of the attendees was reading from the daily reflections. As I was reading the announcements, I passed back the slips.


we don't sign the papers until the meetings is over. This makes them wait till the end. They like it or not. Some are obnoxious, they play their games on the phone with sound on. Sometimes, people ask them to quieten it, some do and some don't. Its all the ego talking. Can't do much.
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Re: Nothing but Nudge from the Judgers

Postby michmjon » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:37 am

Noels wrote:Good morning Mich :D I understand the feeling of sadness that they wouldn't at least stay for the meeting. What I would do from here on is to hand the attendance sheets back AFTER the meeting.
Since it is compulsory for them to attend it's only fair and reasonable they do so so I wouldn't look at my action in holding onto the attendance slip until after the meeting as 'forcing ' them. It's simply executing the courts wishes and hopefully by doing so they will hear something that resonate with them at some stage.
Apart from this remember we can only carry the message, not the alcoholic. At least by staying for the meeting they have a better chance to 'survive ' than before.
Since there was no one else there to lead it is possible that you were sent there for a reason so well done.
Goodluck and let us know what happens next week :D
Mwah xxx


I should have thought of that- but never having experienced it before I just did what I usually do when I lead meetings. I called my sponsor this morning to see if he wanted to go on a hike with me today and I told him what happened. He attends meetings in a different city and told me that was happening a lot in his group so they initiated a new rule of not signing sheets until the meeting was over. He said that a few of the people complained- making excuses about having to get to work and saying that they weren't alcoholics- stating that they just got pulled over and blew a DUI and thought attending the meetings was (in their words) "stupid" as they felt they didn't have a drinking problem. My sponsor said they got the lecture after saying that! :mrgreen: Oh well- off to the State Park- it's beautiful today! A nice walk down the beach with my sponsor will be today's meeting for me!
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Re: Nothing but Nudge from the Judgers

Postby michmjon » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:04 am

Spirit Flower wrote:I don't sign court sheets.


Spirit Flower- I feel that when one volunteers to lead the group for a meeting, part of the obligation as the role of leader is signing attendance sheets. It is something that should be done, if not strictly out of civic duty and complying with the request of the courts. One thing I have never done, however- and will never do- is put my personal phone number on the sheets. I always put the Alano Club phone number down. Just as I will not disclose where I live to ANYONE in meetings I will not also disclose my personal phone number. There's just to many shady people attending meetings at the club- people who have admitted to having long police records, drug addicts and even a few admitted sex offenders.
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Re: Nothing but Nudge from the Judgers

Postby Noels » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:30 am

Aah Mich no :( and here I thought I was gonna get your address :( ...... :lol: just yanking your chain :lol: :lol: :lol:
I feel that if the court ordered them to be there then they got off easy so tough cookies for them having to be somewhere else. When they are in jail there will be no choice so stay for the meeting they will. They 'lost' their choice when they were caught over the limit.
As a matter of fact, my son's girlfriends mom was involved in an accident on Saturday - culprits 4 desperately drunk dudes who skipped a red light. She recently had a neck opp so our entire Saturday was spent at the hospital with her for checks and ex rays and her car is totalled.
Although the dudes were arrested this is unnecessary pain, expense and inconvenience for a complete innocent person so I agree you do your civic duty and make them sit for the meeting. I would.
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Re: Nothing but Nudge from the Judgers

Postby Reborn » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:59 am

I have signed court slips before the meeting and told people they could leave if they want a day off. AA is not affiliated with the court system...we sign court cards as a courtesy. Really if a person doesn't want to be there they are not going to hear a message whether they stay or not. My suggestion is not to let these people effect you...there will always be the half measure group and the step zero group...a person will not hear or even consider a solution until they fully concede that they alcoholics.
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Re: Nothing but Nudge from the Judgers

Postby Layne » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:35 am

I sign attendance slips as soon as they are handed to me. Doing any differently would be me attempting to exert my will upon another person (i.e."I know what is best for them"), which is something I try to avoid doing these days.
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Re: Nothing but Nudge from the Judgers

Postby Noels » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:03 pm


I have signed court slips before the meeting and told people they could leave if they want a day off. AA is not affiliated with the court system...we sign court cards as a courtesy. Really if a person doesn't want to be there they are not going to hear a message whether they stay or not


Is it not written in BB that some men approached the judge and requested the alcoholic be given a chance to attend AA under their custody rather than be sentenced to prison?

The way I see it is that the courts make it so easy for us to possibly get the message to that alcoholic by 'entrusting them to our custody ' (as in the BB ) but by our ignorance or bad attitude we, rather than embrace the opportunity we waste the opportunity?
How is that ' helping the still suffering alcoholic '?
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Re: Nothing but Nudge from the Judgers

Postby Reborn » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:52 pm

Noels wrote:Is it not written in BB that some men approached the judge and requested the alcoholic be given a chance to attend AA under their custody rather than be sentenced to prison?

The way I see it is that the courts make it so easy for us to possibly get the message to that alcoholic by 'entrusting them to our custody ' (as in the BB ) but by our ignorance or bad attitude we, rather than embrace the opportunity we waste the opportunity?
How is that ' helping the still suffering alcoholic '?


I don't believe I am the ignorant one here...nor do I have a bad attitude. I'm not sure if you're in the US but here when people get busted and drinking is involved they are sent to AA. However like I said AA is not affiliated with the courts...the courts do not entrust anyone to our custody. I have worked with several men that were sent in with a court slip to sign and the majority of them are not sober today. Why? Because they confused compliance for surrender. As I said before whether a person leaves at the beginning of the meeting or sits through the whole thing with no intention of listening....nothing can be done until they are willing to actually HEAR the message. As far as what you quoted out of the big book...that is refering to Ebby and 3 members of the Oxford group approaching a judge....they got Ebby out of going to jail...and guess what Ebby didn't stay sober.
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Re: Nothing but Nudge from the Judgers

Postby Spirit Flower » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:57 pm

I don't agree with a court system sending people to a spiritual program. An issue of the separation of church and state IMO.

I've been sober 31 years, since before they had these slips. Where I went to meetings, one of the alcoholics WAS the judge. And he came to meetings as a regular member.
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Re: Nothing but Nudge from the Judgers

Postby michmjon » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:52 pm

Spirit Flower wrote:I don't agree with a court system sending people to a spiritual program. An issue of the separation of church and state IMO.

I've been sober 31 years, since before they had these slips. Where I went to meetings, one of the alcoholics WAS the judge. And he came to meetings as a regular member.


I remember reading somewhere a few months ago that a circuit judge in one of the states ruled that sending a person to AA as part of a sentencing for a DUI was in violation of that person's 1st Amendment rights. I am on the fence on this issue. I have seen a few young kids come to meetings on a court order and stay long after their meeting requirement was met. Both of them are not what I would qualify as being alcoholics. What they got out of the meetings was that alcohol is not a crutch to use when life gets you down and they continue to come to the meetings because they feel they have lessons to learn. Most of the court-ordered attendees, however, sit there bidding their time tapping away at their cellphones and passing when their turn to speak comes. Far better would be for these people would be assigned community service- picking up trash along the roads, helping out in the Men's/Women's shelter or working in an assisted living facility.
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Re: Nothing but Nudge from the Judgers

Postby Noels » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:59 pm

REBORN - Was Ebby not the one who stirred the fire in Bill enough so Bill ended up writing the solution - the BB and 12 steps - that lead so many alcoholics to sobriety thereby saving millions of lives? So although Ebby didn't remain sober was he really a 'waste of time '?
Although AA is not affiliated with the court system is AA not still a part of that particular country and fall under that country's law which include respecting that country's law and courts ?
SPIRIT - Wouldn't you agree that because 'the judge ' was already an AA member he knew what he was talking about when sending offenders to AA so rather than implying that he was just an alcoholic I would say he was actually a judge with personal experience in the solution to alcoholism therefore a professional at his day job who knew what he was doing when sending offenders to AA
REBORN AND SPIRIT - Is it not judgmental to 'decide ' these offenders have no chance of recovery before we've even tried to share the message with them?
MICH - can we really 'qualify ' another as an alcoholic especially since alcoholism is a progressive disease? Is it not a good thing that those kids learned about alcoholism at their age?

How many of us have been at AA more than once before we finally stopped drinking - each for our own reasons - yet was never 'discouraged ' rather than 'encouraged' to attend the meeting and come back? Welcomed rather than treated with indifference?
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Re: Nothing but Nudge from the Judgers

Postby Reborn » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:40 pm

You're putting words in my mouth...I never said or even implied that anyone who walks through the doors is a waste of time. I carry the message regardless of the crowd gathered at a meeting. What I did say is there will always be folks who are at meetings to simply get a slip signed. Who are not there to hear a solution. Who are just there to jump through the hoop. Perhaps this doesn't happen where you are in the world but it happens in the states a lot. I will repeat myself for the 3RD time...unless a person is ready to hear a solution no one including the courts make them listen or even want to be there. I appreciate what you are saying but suggesting that I think anyone is a waste of time in AA is BS!
We have recovered, and have been given the power to help others. BB pg 132
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