Mouthwash?

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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby avaneesh912 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:47 am

Many people are stuck with this allergy/craving the physical part of the disease. Its totally irrelevant. Thats why you see the other chapters keep talking about mind being the main culprit of an alcoholic.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby Brock » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:04 am

As a recovering addict, I think it is my responsibility to explore and learn everything I can on the nature of my addiction. With knowledge comes power.

Nobody would argue with that. Thing is the people who fully utilize the AA program get far more than the elimination of cravings, when the scientists come out with a pill that they can guarantee eliminates craving, reduces anxiety, let's you forgive others and yourself, and makes you a better all round caring human being who is happier than ever before, such a pill might impress us.
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby Spirit Flower » Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:15 am

There is a pill which I read about last week (but don't remember the name of the program) which if you take it about an hour before taking a drink, you shouldn't feel cravings.
1. the found that many people didn't comply with the program.
2. It doesn't fix "restless, irritable, discontent" which is the mental condition of many alcoholics.

Only a complete psychic change will fix "restless, irritable, discontent" and that is a spiritual solution.
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby Noels » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:08 am

Hi Mich thanks for clarifying for us :) I think you may be forgetting when you state

Dr. Silkworth's claims are the theory of but one person. If a renowned scientist came out and proclaimed the sky is pink and offered 40,000 reasons to substantiate his claim would you suddenly believe that all other scientific studies on the color of the sky from that point on are utter nonsense?

that we don't go on Dr Silkworth's claims only although it makes sense. We go on the proof of millions of drunks (actual walking talking living breathing human dolls :) ) who have followed the program, not Dr Silkworth. If there are any other scientists that can show me proof from millions of others (actual walking talking living breathing human dolls) not 40,000 reasons to substantiate his claim that the sky is pink I could consider listening to them?

Thanks for the topic.

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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby michmjon » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:12 pm

Spirit Flower wrote:There is a pill which I read about last week (but don't remember the name of the program) which if you take it about an hour before taking a drink, you shouldn't feel cravings.
1. the found that many people didn't comply with the program.
2. It doesn't fix "restless, irritable, discontent" which is the mental condition of many alcoholics.

Only a complete psychic change will fix "restless, irritable, discontent" and that is a spiritual solution.


I was prescribed Neurotin for chronic nerve pain in my back and restless leg syndrome back in August of last year. Soon after I started taking it (the lowest dosage commonly prescribed) I noticed that my craving for alcohol totally disappeared. So, I looked it up and sure enough there it was. Neurotin has been proven to reduce activity in the brain's neurotransmitters that are associated with cravings and it has been successfully used as a treatment for alcoholism. One particular study of a sample group, of which 44% were heavy drinkers, showed success rate three times higher for successful treatment of alcohol dependance over the placebo group. Neurotin stopped the relapse related issues of insomnia, anxiety and cravings. The only side effects were increased drowsiness and dizziness. There are many other drugs that have high success rates in treating alcoholism.
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby Reborn » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:36 pm

There is no chemical solution to a spiritual problem.
We have recovered, and have been given the power to help others. BB pg 132
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby D'oh » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:01 pm

There is a pill which I read about last week (but don't remember the name of the program) which if you take it about an hour before taking a drink, you shouldn't feel cravings.
1. the found that many people didn't comply with the program.
2. It doesn't fix "restless, irritable, discontent" which is the mental condition of many alcoholics.


If there was a Pill, that would make me "Not Drink" I would either be Dead, Locked up, or in a Padded room, within a year.

Alcohol is but a symptom, living is my problem. Just as Heroin, Opiates, or Mom's little yellow pills, they are all just an Escape from living in my own skin. The program is just a way to live One Day at a Time, even though I believe Tomorrow will come, if I do as I should Today, tomorrow will look after it's self. And all my Yesterdays, have just brought me to Here, Today.

The 1st Step, is the only Step that says "Alcohol" All of the rest Deal with a way of Living.

(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.

(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.

(c) That God could and would if He were sought.
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby michmjon » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:21 am

Reborn wrote:There is no chemical solution to a spiritual problem.


Alcoholism isn't just a spiritual problem. It's also a chemical dependency caused by reactions in the neurotransmitters in the human brain. Denying the science behind alcoholism and ignoring the fact that there are medical solutions to help the addict recover is an issue that AA should openly address. AA is there for one purpose and one purpose alone- to help the alcoholic on his or her path to recovery. Why would it choose to make that path more difficult by only addressing one side of the issue of addiction?
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby avaneesh912 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:37 am

Why would it choose to make that path more difficult by only addressing one side of the issue of addiction?


What we are saying is, if we don't take care of the spiritual malady, the candidate will stop taking his medication.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby Chelle » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:45 am

Today's daily reflection is a good read. Have you read it Michmon?I could not have this life by simply putting the booze down and taking a pill to relieve my cravings. I had to get down to the root causes of why I drank and became alcoholic. AA is a design for living.

Back to the original topic...I have mouthwash in my cabinet and use it. The day I see it as a source of anything other than its intended use is the day I dump it down the drain.
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby Brock » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:22 am

Denying the science behind alcoholism and ignoring the fact that there are medical solutions to help the addict recover is an issue that AA should openly address.

I agree wholeheartedly, many old time AA members have a closed mind to this, they found a solution without the help of medication and believe that's the only way. But keep in mind the words you used “to help the addict recover,” and it would only be useful if used in conjunction with the tried and proven twelve step process, otherwise the alcoholic would need to take the medication for life, and it would still be an empty and likely unhappy life.

Also, what makes most people willing to do the program of AA, and seek a spiritual solution is suffering, it's also what makes non alcoholics seek spirituality as well. That is why we have a relatively high turnover of those who come and go, they need to suffer some more, before they drop all resistance to the fact that they can not recover without spiritual assistance. Taking away the craving which is part of the suffering, might also make them less lightly to do the work for full recovery.

Most people (probably all) who propose ideas like these, have not found the sort of recovery we are speaking about, and I have met those who thought I was wasn't being honest, when I attempt to describe the tranquility one can find in spirituality. It's the reason we are able to turn our back on drinking and other drugs, good spirituality feels better than they do.
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby Spirit Flower » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:45 am

What Noels posted here http://www.e-aa.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=23242 is a good furtherance of what Brock said.
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby Reborn » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:14 am

If a person has to be detoxed with a pill so be it. I had to take Librium for about a week when I detoxed...this is not what I am talking about. What I'm talking about is precisely what I said above...THERE IS NO CHEMICAL SOLUTION TO A SPIRITUAL PROBLEM...PERIOD. I really don't care if you disagree or not...your choice...but we live in a society that just wants to put band aids on these problems by throwing prescription drugs at them. Let me ask you mich...have you worked the steps out of the Big Book? Have you had the spiritual awakening as a result of taking action? Science has given us some good tools to detox the alcoholic...but that is not a long term solution. I believe it is trading one vice for another and never treating the causes and conditions.
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby michmjon » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:20 am

Perhaps my comments were misunderstood. I simply meant that the science behind addiction should not be ignored as a part of recovery. I am not stating in anyway that spiritual (I prefer calling it mental) recovery should be ignored. That's why I go to meetings. To me, strictly going to meetings as an answer to recovery is comparable to only going to church, never seeing a doctor, and expecting your cancer to be cured.
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby Noels » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:48 am

Heya Mich =biggrin I think I have an idea what you are meaning and I do agree with it. I have been a very spiritual person from day I was born but on my own I could not stop drinking. Yes I admit that I did "fall back" a bit with my spiritual progress / growth at a certain time while I was drinking but the point that I want to make is that although I lived in a spiritual manner i still needed the assistance of AA to stop drinking. So from my experience I'm inclined to say that the "theory" if i can use that word for lack of another better word AS WELL AS spiritual growth is what is keeping me sober. I also find that the more i progress spiritually the more i want to do - for others, myself, AA and other alcoholics. That could be the "theory / service " part mentioned in BB which still brings us back to both need to be maintained - theory as well as spiritual progress.

I'm not going to go much deeper into this at this stage except for mentioning that spiritualism is different from religion and that is quite important for you to understand. The easiest way i used to explain it was "spiritualism is contact with Creator direct - to speak with and hear Creator's replies yourself/direct" whereas "religion is contact with Creator via another person - a priest, pastor, whoever ". This does not mean that anyone is wrong or right. As a matter of fact, i do not believe there is a "wrong" or a "right". To me its a matter of perception as what is "wrong" to you may be " right" to me and vice versa.

Just thought id share this particular thought and thank you once again for the topic. Very interesting although not really related to mouthwash anymore =biggrin =biggrin =biggrin

have a gorgeous evening and talk again soon
mwah xxx
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