Mouthwash?

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Mouthwash?

Postby michmjon » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:57 am

Last week I was at the grocery store and ran into a gentleman that regularly attends meetings I go to. We were talking when he noticed a bottle of Listerine in my cart and asked if I use it. I answered that yes, I had been using it for years. He jumped all over me telling me to look at the label and that it contained alcohol. My reply was "it's not like I drink the stuff- I swish it around and spit it out." I wouldn't even consider drinking it- the stuff tastes vile and I only use it for its antibacterial properties. Not a good enough reason for him and he continued on. I finally just said "Whatever" and that I had to get going. I don't see using Listerine as a problem- I've used it my entire life and can honestly say that I see it as absolutely no threat to my sobriety. Before the next meeting, he brought it up again and I pretty much just blew him off again. Comments? Is Listerine really a threat to my sobriety? If I pick up a drink again- which I have no desire ever to do- it certainly won't be chugging a bottle of mouthwash!
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby avaneesh912 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:05 am

Is Listerine really a threat to my sobriety?


No, spiritual malady is.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby Noels » Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:55 am

Heya Mich :) I use alcohol based listerine when I can't get hold of the zero one. Doesn't affect me at all but I have heard that some people stay away from alcohol based anything. Same with alcohol based sprays and perfumes.
Cough mixtures, food and drinks I make sure there's no alcohol in.
Perhaps the difference is that some alcoholics base their recovery on fear whereas others on faith and spiritual growth - love based?
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby michmjon » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:56 pm

"Heya Mich :) I use alcohol based listerine when I can't get hold of the zero one. Doesn't affect me at all but I have heard that some people stay away from alcohol based anything. Same with alcohol based sprays and perfumes.
Cough mixtures, food and drinks I make sure there's no alcohol in."

I have tried non-alcohol, hydrogen peroxide based mouthwashes before. They make me gag (they fizz)! Herbal mouthwashes just leave a horrible aftertaste in my mouth.

Things I will not use are alcohol based cold remedies such as NyQuil (50 proof!). I also have told my doctors that if at all possible, I want to avoid opiates. That's been a tough one lately due to lower-back issues. I do yoga instead.
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby tyg » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:15 pm

That's sweet that the guy was worried about your welfare and was not afraid to say something. Alcoholics Anonymous does mention something about this

These allergic types (alcoholics) can never safely use alcohol
in any form at all; (pg xxviii)
~The secret to the AA program is the first three words on page 112~
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby michmjon » Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:24 am

tyg wrote:That's sweet that the guy was worried about your welfare and was not afraid to say something. Alcoholics Anonymous does mention something about this

These allergic types (alcoholics) can never safely use alcohol
in any form at all; (pg xxviii)


There is absolutely no science behind the "allergic to alcohol" claim. "Addiction as an allergy" - the theory of Dr. William Silkworth in the "Doctor's Opinion" section of the Big Book is the only place this claim exists. Study after study has been done to test this theory and all have shown that the "allergic condition" of not being able to control drinking is a false condition.
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby Noels » Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:59 am

michmjon wrote:
tyg wrote:That's sweet that the guy was worried about your welfare and was not afraid to say something. Alcoholics Anonymous does mention something about this

These allergic types (alcoholics) can never safely use alcohol
in any form at all; (pg xxviii)


There is absolutely no science behind the "allergic to alcohol" claim. "Addiction as an allergy" - the theory of Dr. William Silkworth in the "Doctor's Opinion" section of the Big Book is the only place this claim exists. Study after study has been done to test this theory and all have shown that the "allergic condition" of not being able to control drinking is a false condition.


hi Mich :) what do you mean by this hon? Maybe explain a bit more please?
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby tomsteve » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:45 am

avaneesh912 wrote:
Is Listerine really a threat to my sobriety?


No, spiritual malady is.


now that there is right to the point!

I was my mothers caregiver for the last 11 years of her life. she had dementia and wasn't able to drive. mom liked a glass of wine in the evening,every evening. I did the shopping. funny how in small town Michigan, it was when I had a bottle of wine inmy cart that's I'd run into someone from the fellowship.
and amazing how I didn't give a crap what they thought. I knew the motive and wine in my house didn't bother me.
however
if she wanted a beer ever nite, id have to find her a new drink.

if someone has a problem with me having wine- or any alcohol- in my house, then they have a problem.
as long as I maintain my spiritual condition, I can do all sorts of things alcoholics aren't supposed to do.
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby Layne » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:03 am

michmjon wrote:There is absolutely no science behind the "allergic to alcohol" claim. "Addiction as an allergy" - the theory of Dr. William Silkworth in the "Doctor's Opinion" section of the Big Book is the only place this claim exists. Study after study has been done to test this theory and all have shown that the "allergic condition" of not being able to control drinking is a false condition.


I am a bit confused. What is it that you would like people to do with this information?
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby tomsteve » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:00 pm

michmjon wrote:
tyg wrote:That's sweet that the guy was worried about your welfare and was not afraid to say something. Alcoholics Anonymous does mention something about this

These allergic types (alcoholics) can never safely use alcohol
in any form at all; (pg xxviii)


There is absolutely no science behind the "allergic to alcohol" claim. "Addiction as an allergy" - the theory of Dr. William Silkworth in the "Doctor's Opinion" section of the Big Book is the only place this claim exists. Study after study has been done to test this theory and all have shown that the "allergic condition" of not being able to control drinking is a false condition.


welp, the doctors OPINION, came from someone that worked with over 40,000 alcoholics in his lifetime.
were these scientists medical directors of hospitals treating alcoholic and drug addiction? had they researched for many years? or was it one of them controlled studies done on like 50-100 people?
have you noticed that doc silkworth said "manifestation of an allergy?"
that doc silkworth said,"that the phenomenon of craving is limited to this class and never occurs in the average temperate drinker?"
or,"and once having formed the habit and found they cannot break it?"
it reads like ya don't understand what the doc silkworth said and if these "scientists' say that, they don't either.

I had an allergic reaction to alcohol, so your claim that its a false condition is false, mich.
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby avaneesh912 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:22 pm

These allergic types (alcoholics) can never safely use alcohol
in any form at all; (pg xxviii)


I am not sure about this. When it comes to mouth wash, I rinse/gurgle and spit the solution. And most of fluid is out. I am not sure what percentage of solution is ingested. And in that the % of alcohol that is absorbed is too negligible I would think. Unless I am a sloppy person who can't gurgle and spit the mouthwash, in which case, if you are alcoholic, its better to go with non-alcoholic mouth washes.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby Duke » Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:12 pm

You've asked for opinions michmjon, and you've gotten them. I don't know if they'll help you or not. Personally, I'm not interested in opinions about things like this. I really just want to know if others have experience with what I'm asking about and what that is.

My experience is that I have used Listerine mouthwash for over thirty years of sobriety and it has never had a negative effect on any aspect of my sobriety.

Good luck to you.
"If you are humble nothing will touch you, neither praise nor disgrace, because you know what you are.", Mother Teresa
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby Lali » Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:27 pm

Seems like the simple solution if you have concerns is to switch to mouthwash without alcohol.
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby Layne » Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:51 pm

I use listerine and it is not a threat to my sobriety, but that is me. Different people may feel differently about whether it is threat to their sobriety or not. Either way, it is all good.

The gentleman that jumped all over you, has his beliefs and that too is all good. He has to do what he feels is right. I have to do what I feel is right. Neither of us is wrong. Wrong only occurs when we insist our right way is the right way for others.
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Re: Mouthwash?

Postby michmjon » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:34 pm

tomsteve wrote:
michmjon wrote:
tyg wrote:That's sweet that the guy was worried about your welfare and was not afraid to say something. Alcoholics Anonymous does mention something about this

These allergic types (alcoholics) can never safely use alcohol
in any form at all; (pg xxviii)


There is absolutely no science behind the "allergic to alcohol" claim. "Addiction as an allergy" - the theory of Dr. William Silkworth in the "Doctor's Opinion" section of the Big Book is the only place this claim exists. Study after study has been done to test this theory and all have shown that the "allergic condition" of not being able to control drinking is a false condition.


welp, the doctors OPINION, came from someone that worked with over 40,000 alcoholics in his lifetime.
were these scientists medical directors of hospitals treating alcoholic and drug addiction? had they researched for many years? or was it one of them controlled studies done on like 50-100 people?
have you noticed that doc silkworth said "manifestation of an allergy?"
that doc silkworth said,"that the phenomenon of craving is limited to this class and never occurs in the average temperate drinker?"
or,"and once having formed the habit and found they cannot break it?"
it reads like ya don't understand what the doc silkworth said and if these "scientists' say that, they don't either.

I had an allergic reaction to alcohol, so your claim that its a false condition is false, mich.


Alcoholics Anonymous has a reputation in the medical community for ignoring scientific data on the disease of addiction- my own doctor freely admitted this, but she still advised me that AA was the best free program for recovery available and that I should go. This is a spiritual based program. Studies done on drugs that reduce or eliminate cravings are never mentioned, scientific studies on the nature of addiction are never brought up in meetings. As a recovering addict, I think it is my responsibility to explore and learn everything I can on the nature of my addiction. With knowledge comes power.

I often here comments just such as yours when I attempt to bring up the scientific studies on the nature of addiction that I spend a lot of my time reading- if it's in the Big Book, that's all that matters and you shouldn't pay any mind to all that garbage you read (to paraphrase what a gentleman once told me in a meeting). Dr. Silkworth's claims are the theory of but one person. If a renowned scientist came out and proclaimed the sky is pink and offered 40,000 reasons to substantiate his claim would you suddenly believe that all other scientific studies on the color of the sky from that point on are utter nonsense?

But that's getting off subject and this particular topic probably deserves its own thread... :-D
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