Other drugs at meetings...

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Re: Other drugs at meetings...

Postby Blue Moon » Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:28 pm

SoberInMI wrote:The point is when you take others inventory, or "critique" them, you are taking your own inventory...


Hmm. No, I'm taking theirs.
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Re: Other drugs at meetings...

Postby Noels » Mon May 01, 2017 12:42 am

Blue Moon wrote:
SoberInMI wrote:The point is when you take others inventory, or "critique" them, you are taking your own inventory...


Hmm. No, I'm taking theirs.


Heya Blue :D why don't you guys just give it a rest now and let's stick to taking our own inventories.
Let's never forget that we DO have the choice on whether to respond in a loving manner or otherwise AKA leave our newcomer alone now.
Have an awesome day today.
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Re: Other drugs at meetings...

Postby avaneesh912 » Mon May 01, 2017 3:42 am

we DO have the choice


Some are compelled to keep the thing going. Like the alcoholic insanity, they are being driven. If I am spiritually not fit, I tend to get caught in the drama too.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: Other drugs at meetings...

Postby Blue Moon » Mon May 01, 2017 6:25 am

Noels wrote: we DO have the choice on whether to respond in a loving manner


Indeed. If I was not being loving and tolerant, this forum would rapidly become a no-go area. But remember, if someone says something untrue, or expresses an opinion as being fact, there's a certain obligation to politely dispute lest other newcomers believe it's factual truth.
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Re: Other drugs at meetings...

Postby SoberInMI » Mon May 01, 2017 7:15 am

Blue Moon wrote:
SoberInMI wrote:The point is when you take others inventory, or "critique" them, you are taking your own inventory...


Hmm. No, I'm taking theirs.


Still, I seem to recall that AA principles frown on taking others' inventory and encourages us to focus on our own, and I think this forum has a guideline that suggests we don't "critique" others, but I could be wrong.
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Re: Other drugs at meetings...

Postby Layne » Mon May 01, 2017 7:40 am

I took a suggestion from this thread and decided to take my own inventory concerning this thread, especially since I have done a fair amount of responding thus far.

These are the results I came to after completing that inventory.

I believe my actions were done in a sincere effort to hold up a mirror to another person so that they might employ it as a tool.

Each time I responded, I practiced restraint of fingers to make sure that I was not responding in a knee jerk reaction to drama. I gave myself time to think and to evaluate whether ego and self pride were part of the response.

Each time I made sure to look in the mirror, before I held it up for the other person.

I welcome any feedback that might have alternate perceptions of my actions thus far, either through this thread or through PM, because I know that many times despite my best efforts, I require the use of a mirror.
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Re: Other drugs at meetings...

Postby SoberInMI » Mon May 01, 2017 7:57 am

Layne wrote:I took a suggestion from this thread and decided to take my own inventory concerning this thread, especially since I have done a fair amount of responding thus far.

These are the results I came to after completing that inventory.

I believe my actions were done in a sincere effort to hold up a mirror to another person so that they might employ it as a tool.

Each time I responded, I practiced restraint of fingers to make sure that I was not responding in a knee jerk reaction to drama. I gave myself time to think and to evaluate whether ego and self pride were part of the response.

Each time I made sure to look in the mirror, before I held it up for the other person.

I welcome any feedback that might have alternate perceptions of my actions thus far, either through this thread or through PM, because I know that many times despite my best efforts, I require the use of a mirror.


I can say, based on your account, that it seems that you have made some effort to be true to yourself and AA's principles. No one can ask for more.
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Re: Other drugs at meetings...

Postby SoberInMI » Mon May 01, 2017 8:40 am

D'oh wrote:
Our liquor was but a symptom. So we had to get down to causes and conditions.
pg 64 Of the Big Book

So, what is an Pure Alcoholic if alcohol is but a Symptom?


I define a "pure" alcoholic as having no other addiction other than alcohol, not dually or cross-addicted.

As for the symptom comment, it only makes sense until we cross that invisible line and become alcoholics. Until the we crossover, we are dealing with our underlying emotional problems with alcohol. Once we cross that line and become alcoholics, then the disease of alcoholism is our problem and it can be fatal. Are our underlying problems fatal? Once we remove alcohol from the equation we can address the underlying emotional problems through steps 2-12. On its face, does it make sense that we remove the symptoms in the first step to cure the the underlying problem in steps 2-12? If we remove the problem the symptoms go away.

It is similar to the Akron Pamphlet that says that alcoholics must take the 1st step alone and the doctor's opinion that implies that alcoholics become such due to genetics (an allergy), at least that is the interpretation. I think what the Akronites were saying is that we have do the 1st step for ourselves, not necessarily alone, and the 12 and 12 clarifies the doctor's opinion when it says that the allergy came secondarily: "The tyrant alcohol wielded a double-edged sword over us: first we were smitten by an insane urge that condemned us to go on drinking, and then by an allergy of the body that insured we would ultimately destroy ourselves in the process."

I attribute this things to either alcoholism not being as well understood as it is today or that it intended to play to the newcomer and potential members; veteran AA members don't need convincing.
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Re: Other drugs at meetings...

Postby Blue Moon » Mon May 01, 2017 9:17 am

SoberInMI wrote:Still, I seem to recall that AA principles frown on taking others' inventory and encourages us to focus on our own


Interestingly, if you review the 4th Step in the Big Book, it starts out by explicitly instructing the reader to take everyone else's inventory. It even goes into specific examples: "Mr Brown", "Mrs. Jones", "My employer", "My wife". It goes on to say "nothing counted but thoroughness and honesty" - with everyone else's inventory. The conclusion: that others were wrong.

Unfortunately, that conclusion is as far as many tend to get. So they stay resentful. When it comes to our own inventory, the question is: does the behaviour of others that's being inventoried trouble us in any way? If it does, we need to look to our part, for that is all that we can really change about how we feel. But if it doesn't, we have no resentment about it (even when the other person is still wrong).

So the fact that someone storms in here like a bull in a china shop telling everyone else how wrong and flawed they all are, definitely allows me to take their inventory. If I'm personally troubled by their behaviour, I should look at my reaction to it. But if I'm really not, I've no need to. If they don't amend their attitude and behaviour, that's their responsibility. But sober members who are not personally insulted by a bad attitude do have a duty to ensure the newcomer is made aware when some behaviour is inappropriate, to give that individual the opportunity to practice legitimate restraint of "tongue and keyboard", not least to avoid running their own risk of being kicked out.
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Re: Other drugs at meetings...

Postby D'oh » Mon May 01, 2017 9:33 am

I define a "pure" alcoholic as having no other addiction other than alcohol, not dually or cross-addicted.

As for the symptom comment, it only makes sense until we cross that invisible line and become alcoholics. Until the we crossover, we are dealing with our underlying emotional problems with alcohol. Once we cross that line and become alcoholics, then the disease of alcoholism is our problem and it can be fatal.


Page 64 is far beyond the point which those who weren't would read to. That is directed at the Alcoholic. For that sake, why even include this in a book meant for recovery from Alcoholism?

So, if we are just Lost Souls. Spiritually, Physically, Mentally different. What is an Addict, Over Eater, Chronic J Walker? Are they somehow different? Different than our worse Resentment, which we are to Cheerfully grant patents, tolerance and love, as we would a sick friend?

Third, Who am I to judge if they should be in the rooms of AA. If anyone other than myself should be there? I do know that some sort of Devine Intervention got me there, so I am not sure about many others.
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Re: Other drugs at meetings...

Postby SoberInMI » Mon May 01, 2017 9:44 am

Blue Moon wrote:
SoberInMI wrote:Still, I seem to recall that AA principles frown on taking others' inventory and encourages us to focus on our own


Interestingly, if you review the 4th Step in the Big Book, it starts out by explicitly instructing the reader to take everyone else's inventory. It even goes into specific examples: "Mr Brown", "Mrs. Jones", "My employer", "My wife". It goes on to say "nothing counted but thoroughness and honesty" - with everyone else's inventory. The conclusion: that others were wrong.


I might suggest that you reread the Fifth Chapter because what you describe is "our" grudge list: "On our grudge list we set opposite each name our injuries. Was it our self-esteem, our security, our ambitions, our personal, or sex relations, which had been interfered with?"
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Re: Other drugs at meetings...

Postby SoberInMI » Mon May 01, 2017 9:53 am

Chronic J Walker? Are chronic "jaywalkers' powerless over their jaywalking and that their lives have become unmanageable (as a result)? Is jaywalking an addiction?

I doubt I could be kind and avoid "critiquing" if I said anymore. But, I need not say more because the problems with the posting are self-evident.
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Re: Other drugs at meetings...

Postby Noels » Mon May 01, 2017 10:43 am

:D :D :D well. ... I can see an enormous change. Thank you gents. Sober. .. thank you :D how nice to have good discussion now.
I'm outta here for the night. Play nice :lol: :lol: :lol:
Mwah xxx Noels
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Re: Other drugs at meetings...

Postby Brock » Mon May 01, 2017 11:23 am

I might suggest that you reread the Fifth Chapter because what you describe is "our" grudge list:

Yes he mentions that part which is the grudge list, in which we do take others inventory. But then his second and longer paragraph, is speaking about what we do with it -
When it comes to our own inventory, the question is: does the behavior of others that's being inventoried trouble us in any way? If it does, we need to look to our part, for that is all that we can really change about how we feel. But if it doesn't, we have no resentment about it (even when the other person is still wrong).

And this comes later on page 67.

He then goes on to quite nicely mention, - “Sober members who are not personally insulted by a bad attitude do have a duty to ensure the newcomer is made aware when some behaviour is inappropriate,”

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Re: Other drugs at meetings...

Postby SoberInMI » Mon May 01, 2017 12:21 pm

May God bless you with a long and sober life.
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