Myths of sponsorship for the superstitious

Most of us who recovered with AA's program did so with the help of a "sponsor". But what is sponsorship? How do I get one? Who can be a sponsor? What makes a good sponsor?

Myths of sponsorship for the superstitious

Postby From the heart » Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:16 am

Myths of sponsorship for the superstitious

1 Sponsorship is not motioned in any Step or Tradition nor in the Big Book
itself.
A.A. states No human power can relive us – God could and would if
sought
To seek is to find something one already has.

2 Sponsorship diverts the new comer away from A.A.s group level as a
whole into their web
A.A. teaches not to promote inside or outside issues, Learning to follow
ones own heart is attraction enough, rather than self promotion. If it
cannot be said on a group level its not A.A.

3. Sponsorship believing in telling another diverts a newcomer of personal
willingness
A.A. teach anyone can get sober regardless of any Person, Place or
Thing
There is only one key “personal willingness”

4. Sponsorship lacks humility and belief that God could and would if
sought. To control is to be controlled
A.A. states there is only one authority a Loving God who s in our group
conscious again A.A. group level as a whole

5. Out of fear for self sponsorship was imbedded here which dictates to
newcomers what to do and where to go.
A.A states no one is to make anyone believe or conform to anything (it
has to begin within)

When one belies something they don’t understand that is simply called superstition
A.A. makes it clear God as you understand, could and would.
If one has personal willingness to follows the path takes the steps the results become an awaking
If one follow the dictates of another, works hard on the steps the result is self promotion


Sponsorship is simply a superstition that if you don’t have one you will get drunk, this religious fear tactic is just another substitution for faith – what one does is what one believes.

Promotion of sponsorship or the attraction of the A.A. program ones own heart due to the awaking to faith as a result of personal willingness from the steps
People who have no principles do need rules
From the heart
Forums Enthusiast
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:13 pm

Re: Myths of sponsorship for the superstitious

Postby Blue Moon » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:57 am

From the heart wrote:1 Sponsorship is not motioned in any Step or Tradition nor in the Big Book itself.


Check out the foreword to the first edition, one alcoholic working with another.

Also check out the history that predates AA, the history of Roland H sponsoring Ebby T's release from the Court system; Ebby T's sponsorship of Bill W through the Oxford Group program.

Check out the stories of Dr Bob working with around 5,000 newcomers in 15 years.

Check out Chapter 7, "Working with others".

The concept of sponsorship predates AA, predates the Big Book, and has existed throughout AA's existence. It's ingrained within the process of working with others. It only becomes a problem when the sponsor has not done the work, for which even the BB says "you cannot transmit that which you do not have".

If anything, that's a symptom of a lack of sponsorship resulting in thousands of untrained alcoholics (perhaps even non-alcoholics) thinking they offer any sort of solution.
Ian S
AKA Blue Moon
User avatar
Blue Moon
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3564
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2002 2:01 am
Location: New Jersey

Postby From the heart » Fri May 25, 2007 2:44 pm

News week May 7 2007 circulation 3.5 million Titles "A struggle inside A.A."
MIDTOWN A.A. Group Washington D.C, Oldest A.A. group in Washington, 500 strong baned due to the outside Sponsorship System. Others will follow
From the heart
Forums Enthusiast
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:13 pm

Postby Jim 725 » Sat May 26, 2007 5:44 am

From the heart, you sure seem to be hung up on that Newsweek article.
Jim S.
Jim 725
 

Postby From the heart » Sat May 26, 2007 10:06 am

Jim,

I deal with your kind all the time in A.A. Self appointed or newcomer preyed clamed sponsor hung up wanting to be more than in A.A. but part of A.A. Hope you find the wisdom to know the difference and change. The altruism and brotherhood in A.A. is not harmful than your outside sponsor system . Hope you get through your transgression
Last edited by From the heart on Sat May 26, 2007 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
From the heart
Forums Enthusiast
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:13 pm

Postby Layne » Sat May 26, 2007 10:25 am

Seems to me, that we should be hung up on what works for us individually in our recovery, that is how I learn best.
Layne
Forums Old Timer
 
Posts: 1517
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:20 am
Location: British Virgin Islands

Postby Jim 725 » Sat May 26, 2007 10:34 am

Jim,
I know and try not to deal with your kind but will always respond to the Self appointed A.A. sponsorship system that preyed on newcomers through fear. A clamed sponsor hung up wanting to sponsor A.A.
Hope you find the wisdom to know the difference and change for the newcomers sake.

Before you start flaming someone you should read what they've posted.
If you had taken the trouble to read any of my posts you'd see that I don't like the modern style of sponsorship. But then, had you taken the time, you wouldn't have had so much time to rant about some group that got on the wrong side of Newsweek magazine.
Just what is "my kind" and how do you "know" me? Who are you to accuse someone of preying on newcomers? Talk about arrogance!!! Self importance run wild! And finally, what, pray tell, is a "clamed" sponsor??
Jim 725
 

Postby From the heart » Sat May 26, 2007 10:48 am

Have you cared to look for themselves where sponsorship and chip praise came from?
Hint: A surly loving Catholic Nun who was non alcoholic.
Anyone Know what Bill W went through with Rollie H ? It was the forming of Tradition 12 its better to learn about A.A. than to make up A.A.

Look in the Big Book, Since you want to argue about the label sponsor people like yourself promote, a word that is not even worth mentioning in the Big Book , Step or Tradition in other words outside the altruism and brotherhood of A.A.
From the heart
Forums Enthusiast
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:13 pm

Postby someoneinaa » Sat May 26, 2007 11:47 am

You're denying my right of Belief in Superstition? ... as it could restore me to sanity.

And what about surreptition? Riding on coattails, looking over shoulders, and trying it for ourselves, the way they did it, fitting if for ourselves... if you want what we have.

Of course, a meeting with a fellow member with each a desire to stop drinking and our experience with these principles, is an AA meeting. Any time, any place any where. Whether we have a "team sweater" or not.

Perhaps you're balking at something that was quite familiar during the Black & White days of early television. The often repeated statement: "This program is brought to you by your sponsor."

Before "sponsor" meant a commercial pitch man, it was about an accessible benefactor who had "paid the price" and wanted to help others with his hard won experience, strength & hope toward higher purpose.

Careful, you may be the only copy of the BB, that someone else reads!

Yes, wolves in sheep's clothing - Bite. Not AA is not AA. All is not what it seems... However, these are lessons from Bourbon Street. Neither from the fellowship nor the philosophy that is 12 Step recovery today. Or for that matter, what the 1st 100 members did before the Book was written. We want to thouroughly follow their path.

No-one has been able to do that by argument or standing alone. This is, after all a "we" program, relying on collective group conscience and personal experience of others, to moderate and change my life.

I hope you find your answer soon.

~ Keith M.
[/i]
User avatar
someoneinaa
Forums Enthusiast
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:01 am
Location: Nova Scotia

Postby Jim 725 » Sat May 26, 2007 2:21 pm

its better to learn about A.A. than to make up A.A.

Good idea--you should try it.
Rollie H. was a catcher for the Cleveland Indians who got sober in AA before there were any Traditions. So what did Bill W. go through with him???
Rowland H. had been a patient of Carl Jung, got sober in the Oxford Group, and had Ebby T. released into his custody rather than committed to an asylum. I'm not sure that he ever did become a member of AA, though he may have.
Who told you that Sister Ignatia was "surly"? Everything I've read says just the opposite. She did not start the modern chip system--when alcoholics were released from the alcoholic ward she gave them a Sacred Heart medallion. Why not read chapter XIV in "Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers" to get an idea of the actual history of AA?
Bill W. never stopped referring to Ebby T. as his (Bill's) sponsor. He also referred to Father Ed Dowling (Gasp--a Catholic priest--horrors!!) as his spiritual sponsor.
Jim S.
Jim 725
 

Postby Blue Moon » Sat May 26, 2007 3:08 pm

From the heart wrote:Look in the Big Book, Since you want to argue about the label sponsor people like yourself promote, a word that is not even worth mentioning in the Big Book , Step or Tradition in other words outside the altruism and brotherhood of A.A.


If you're trying to suggest that sponsors are not mentioned in the 12x12, I'd suggest a read of the book.

This is a circular topic being promoted by a Troll rather than anyone with any interest in alcoholism or recovery therefrom.
Ian S
AKA Blue Moon
User avatar
Blue Moon
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3564
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2002 2:01 am
Location: New Jersey

Postby From the heart » Sat May 26, 2007 9:28 pm

The goal in A.A. is to obtain the ability to awaken, becoming aware of people places and things that hinder the soul. Job no job - wife no wife to infinitum –
WHY Because God could and would if sought – don’t hinder a newcomers soul with your own brand of yourself.
Some want to live – others live to want

Where in the Big Book is the Label sponsor?
Where in the Steps is the Label sponsor?
Where in the Traditions is the Label sponsor?

Your kind can only promote through fear - if you don’t get a ------- you won’t make it.
The message you carry is of yourself not A.A. Read the Big Book don’t intrepid it by adding words and labels that are simply not there its in 5th grade text I am sure you can get it.
Plan and very simply a sponsor is a myth that people turned into a superstition.

Where in the Big Book is the Label sponsor?
Where in the Steps is the Label sponsor?
Where in the Traditions is the Label sponsor?
You can only look to yourself to answer that one.
A blessing doesn’t need any luck – so Good luck
From the heart
Forums Enthusiast
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:13 pm

Postby someoneinaa » Sun May 27, 2007 10:51 am

From the heart wrote:The goal in A.A. is to obtain the ability to awaken, becoming aware of people places and things that hinder the soul.


Funny, all these years I thought our primary purpose was to stay sober by carrying the message to the alcoholic who still suffers.

Guess my 57 years experience with AA is in vain. Either that, or I'm a specifically slooww learner who has been happily sober, sharing with others. Blissfully being led down the Garden Path of wrong conclusion. It should've ended with me dying on that floor, But for the Grace of God.

btw. Step 12 specifically states that having a spiritual awakening is a result of these steps. Results have already happened. The goal of the steps remains the same: permenant, contented sobriety.

And Bill was willing to talk to anyone, who even remotely may've had an idea toward that end. It was Ebby who brought him the idea of One Drunk helping Another. Now a tried & true method.

One drunk hindering another is not Sponsorship. That's an "old idea" that availed us nothing.


[/b]
User avatar
someoneinaa
Forums Enthusiast
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:01 am
Location: Nova Scotia

Postby From the heart » Sun May 27, 2007 11:23 am

The highest rank in A.A. is sober! what rank are you talking about.
Boy! What happen to the Faith in living One Day at a Time?
Anyone’s experience can help another good or bad even a Midtown sponsor, I am learning from you.
Why are you having to defend?
This is not about self, so easy does it, Its about the Spirit of A.A.

Your kind can only promote through fear which you posses inside like - if you don’t get a ------- you won’t make it.
The message you carry is of yourself not A.A. Read the Big Book don’t intrepid it by adding words and labels that are simply not there, its in 5th grade text. I am sure we will get it one way or the other.

Where in the Big Book is the Label sponsor?
Where in the Steps is the Label sponsor?
Where in the Traditions is the Label sponsor?
You can only look to yourself to answer that one.
A blessing doesn’t need any luck – so Good luck

Plan and very simply a sponsor is a myth that people turned into a superstition.
The oldest group in Washington called the Midtown A.A. group is experiencing the wreckage of the outside sponsorship system. Look it up on any search engine

Save your pitch for the sponsorship forum that promotes sponsors not the forum that believes in the altruism of brotherhood the spirit of A.A.
Join the midtown A.A. group they can surly use your expertise, I am sure

P.S. Ebby got drunk after he pitched to Bill
What’s wrong with just being a brother amongst brothers or a sister amongst sisters? the spirit of A.A. rather than some sprit in self.
A.A. works and works good.
From the heart
Forums Enthusiast
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:13 pm

Postby Blue Moon » Tue May 29, 2007 8:15 am

From the heart wrote:The goal in A.A. is to obtain the ability to awaken, becoming aware of people places and things that hinder the soul. Job no job - wife no wife to infinitum


Proof, if any were needed, that you've not worked the program you're allegedly talking about.

The goal in AA, the only goal in AA, is to achieve a spiritual awakening or psychic change sufficient to lose even the desire to drink alcohol.

Every Step, every Tradition, the primary purpose of every group in AA is intended to either achieve or maintain this objective.

This has nothing to do with awareness of people places and things that hinder the soul. Such awareness may become a part of the awakening, but is certainly not the objective.
Ian S
AKA Blue Moon
User avatar
Blue Moon
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3564
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2002 2:01 am
Location: New Jersey

Next

Return to Sponsorship

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests