Sponsorship and ACCOUNTABILITY

Most of us who recovered with AA's program did so with the help of a "sponsor". But what is sponsorship? How do I get one? Who can be a sponsor? What makes a good sponsor?
User avatar
Tosh
Forums Old Timer
Posts: 3743
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 10:43 am

Re: How do I say this more politely?

Post by Tosh » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:19 pm

Stepchild wrote:
Tosh wrote:
ezdzit247 wrote: Yes, otherwise it's just some dull stuff written in the 1930s that doesn't seem relevant. The ESH on the particular paragraph brings it alive.
And you agree too...Down with Big Book spam!
No, mate, it's about growing in usefulness and understanding. Look, with regards newcomers, this is what the Big Book says:
Show him, from your own experience, how the queer mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power. Don't, at this stage, refer to this book, unless he has seen it and wishes to discuss it.
No-where in chapter 7 does it say we just regurgitate the book at a newcomer (the equivalent of a cut n paste job). Using our own words shows a greater understanding, it's more personal, and it doesn't look lazy.
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)

User avatar
Tosh
Forums Old Timer
Posts: 3743
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 10:43 am

Re: Sponsorship and ACCOUNTABILITY

Post by Tosh » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:23 pm

We're on page 6! I feel really naughty, but Paige isn't going to be happy! :lol:
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)

User avatar
ezdzit247
Forums Old Timer
Posts: 2071
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:38 pm
Location: California

Re: How do I say this more politely?

Post by ezdzit247 » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:28 pm

Tosh wrote:
ezdzit247 wrote: Sharing your own ESH on how a particular passage from the BB or anything else was helpful to you when another member or newcomer post a topic question us very interesting and helpful.
Yes, otherwise it's just some dull stuff written in the 1930s that doesn't seem relevant. The ESH on the particular paragraph brings it alive.
Exactly!
“To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.” -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Stepchild
Forums Old Timer
Posts: 1436
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:31 pm

Re: How do I say this more politely?

Post by Stepchild » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:39 pm

Tosh wrote: No, mate, it's about growing in usefulness and understanding. Look, with regards newcomers, this is what the Big Book says:
Show him, from your own experience, how the queer mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power. Don't, at this stage, refer to this book, unless he has seen it and wishes to discuss it.
No-where in chapter 7 does it say we just regurgitate the book at a newcomer (the equivalent of a cut n paste job). Using our own words shows a greater understanding, it's more personal, and it doesn't look lazy.
Read the book Tosh...He's talking about meeting a prospect after a binge...

When your man is better, the doctor might suggest a visit from you. Though you have talked with the family, leave them out of the first discussion. Under these conditions your prospect will see he is under no pressure. He will feel he can deal with you without being nagged by his family. Call on him while he is still jittery. He may be more receptive when depressed.
See your man alone, if possible. At first engage in general conversation. After a while, turn the talk to some phase of drinking. Tell him enough about your drinking habits, symptoms, and experiences to encourage him to speak of himself. If he wishes to talk, let him do so. You will thus get a better idea of how you ought to proceed. If he is not communicative, give him a sketch of your drinking career up to the time you quit. But say nothing, for the moment, of how that was accomplished. If he is in a serious mood dwell on the troubles liquor has caused you, being careful not to moralize or lecture. If his mood is light, tell him humorous stories of your escapades. Get him to tell some of his.
When he sees you know all about the drinking game, commence to describe yourself as an alcoholic. Tell him how baffled you were, how you finally learned that you were sick. Give him an account of the struggles you made to stop. Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism. If he is alcoholic, he will understand you at once. He will match your mental inconsistencies with some of his own.
If you are satisfied that he is a real alcoholic, begin to dwell on the hopeless feature of the malady. Show him, from your own experience, how the queer mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power. Don't, at this stage, refer to this book, unless he has seen it and wishes to discuss it. And be careful not to brand him as an alcoholic. Let him draw his own conclusion. If he sticks to the idea that he can still control his drinking, tell him that possibly he can - if he is not too alcoholic. But insist that if he is severely afflicted, there may be little chance he can recover by himself.


The page before that he says to leave the book....

Sometimes it is wise to wait till he goes on a binge. The family may object to this, but unless he is in a dangerous physical condition, it is better to risk it. Don't deal with him when he is very drunk, unless he is ugly and the family needs your help. Wait for the end of the spree, or at least for a lucid interval. Then let his family or a friend ask him if he wants to quit for good and if he would go to any extreme to do so. If he says yes, then his attention should be drawn to you as a person who has recovered. You should be described to him as one of a fellowship who, as part of their own recovery, try to help others and who will be glad to talk to him if he cares to see you.
If he does not want to see you, never force yourself upon him. Neither should the family hysterically plead with him to do anything, nor should they tell him much about you. They should wait for the end of his next drinking bout. You might place this book where he can see it in the interval. Here no specific rule can be given. The family must decide these things. But urge them not to be over-anxious, for that might spoil matters.

pgs 90 to 92

Have a clue man. Maybe it's better if you don't quote the book.

User avatar
Tosh
Forums Old Timer
Posts: 3743
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 10:43 am

Re: Sponsorship and ACCOUNTABILITY

Post by Tosh » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:51 pm

Stepchild wrote:
The page before that he says to leave the book....
Just leave the book?

So on what page of the Big Book does it say we regurgitate the Big Book, parrot fashion, to a newcomer (the equivalent of a cut 'n' paste)?

:lol:
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)

Stepchild
Forums Old Timer
Posts: 1436
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:31 pm

Re: Sponsorship and ACCOUNTABILITY

Post by Stepchild » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:57 pm

Forget it Tosh...As you put it....
it's just some dull stuff written in the 1930s that doesn't seem relevant.
Why even bother?

User avatar
Tosh
Forums Old Timer
Posts: 3743
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 10:43 am

Re: Sponsorship and ACCOUNTABILITY

Post by Tosh » Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:05 pm

Stepchild wrote:Forget it Tosh...As you put it....
it's just some dull stuff written in the 1930s that doesn't seem relevant.
Why even bother?
Mine quoting as well; you're a man in your fifties aren't you?

The full quote has a different context altogether and you well know it:
Tosh wrote:Yes, otherwise it's just some dull stuff written in the 1930s that doesn't seem relevant. The ESH on the particular paragraph brings it alive.
Where's your honesty man? :(

Walk the talk, mate.
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)

Stepchild
Forums Old Timer
Posts: 1436
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:31 pm

Re: Sponsorship and ACCOUNTABILITY

Post by Stepchild » Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:14 pm

It was totally relevant to me Tosh. And I read it over and over....On my own. It's still relevant.

No.3
Forums Enthusiast
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:11 am

in before the bell?

Post by No.3 » Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:14 pm

Stepchild wrote:Yeah...I got a final comment...
Tosh wrote: Where's your honesty man? :(
Left on Page 5 lol
"The Group demands total loyalty to the inner group. Some have had to leave the movement because of the Groups' demands which conflict with truth or duty." The Oxford Groups by Herbert H. Henson, 1933, pages 73-74.

Stepchild
Forums Old Timer
Posts: 1436
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:31 pm

Re: Sponsorship and ACCOUNTABILITY

Post by Stepchild » Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:49 pm

Tosh wrote:
The full quote has a different context altogether and you well know it:
Tosh wrote:Yes, otherwise it's just some dull stuff written in the 1930s that doesn't seem relevant. The ESH on the particular paragraph brings it alive.
Where's your honesty man? :(

Walk the talk, mate.
I think I've been very honest with anything I've said about you or No.3. It's what I feel. From the heart. As far as a different context goes....I see no difference. You're saying...Without someone else's input on it...It's just dull and irrelevant stuff from the 1930's?...Right? Maybe that's why you have such a hard time understanding it....And good reason not to quote it. You butcher it consistently. That honest enough for you?

User avatar
ezdzit247
Forums Old Timer
Posts: 2071
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:38 pm
Location: California

Re: Sponsorship and ACCOUNTABILITY

Post by ezdzit247 » Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:04 pm

Stepchild wrote:It was totally relevant to me Tosh. And I read it over and over....On my own. It's still relevant.
That said, why aren't you willing to allow newcomers the dignity and space to do the same thing as you did, ON THEIR OWN, so it can be relevant to them as well?
“To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.” -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Stepchild
Forums Old Timer
Posts: 1436
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:31 pm

Re: Sponsorship and ACCOUNTABILITY

Post by Stepchild » Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:11 pm

ezdzit247 wrote:
Stepchild wrote:It was totally relevant to me Tosh. And I read it over and over....On my own. It's still relevant.
That said, why aren't you willing to allow newcomers the dignity and space to do the same thing as you did, ON THEIR OWN, so it can be relevant to them as well?
Fine ez...No mention of the Big Book at all. I have to be honest with you too...You have to be the lead sh!t stirrer on this site. You're one of a kind....In good company.

User avatar
ezdzit247
Forums Old Timer
Posts: 2071
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:38 pm
Location: California

Re: Sponsorship and ACCOUNTABILITY

Post by ezdzit247 » Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:22 pm

Stepchild wrote:
ezdzit247 wrote:
Stepchild wrote:It was totally relevant to me Tosh. And I read it over and over....On my own. It's still relevant.
That said, why aren't you willing to allow newcomers the dignity and space to do the same thing as you did, ON THEIR OWN, so it can be relevant to them as well?
Fine ez...No mention of the Big Book at all. I have to be honest with you too...You have to be the lead sh!t stirrer on this site. You're one of a kind....In good company.
You didn't answer my question, Why aren't you willing to give newcomers the same dignity and space to discover what's in the BB as you yourself did?

And, fortunately, I'm definitely not one of kind in the AA fellowship, Stepchild. I'm just another drunk, another one of God's kids....
“To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.” -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Layne
Forums Old Timer
Posts: 1652
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:20 am
Location: British Virgin Islands

Re: Sponsorship and ACCOUNTABILITY

Post by Layne » Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:27 pm

PaigeB wrote:I cannot imagine how this helps the newcomer. I am looking forward to locking this thread at page 5.
I can't imagine how this thread helps anyone. Egos yes, but people seeking recovery, no.

No.3
Forums Enthusiast
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:11 am

Re: Sponsorship and ACCOUNTABILITY

Post by No.3 » Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:00 pm

Layne is right, a lot of this thread could be trimmed off - spam too please!

Back on topic, another sponsee who lives (temporarily) about 1000 miles away is 'holding himself accountable' to me by text. I've known him awhile, solid rapport. He's stalled out on Step 4, now moaning about how crazy he feels, no meeting in a month or so. My sponsor would blast "You're in danger of drinking!" ; I only txt "Do me a favor - get to a meeting tom" He says he will, then doesn't. Well, we shall see how that goes.

Some spons are vehemently opposed to txtg; I'm not. But I'm leery of any impersonal technological interface, the less I can see the less I trust. I know addicts! And I'm not much more gullible w/ teens either lol

otoh, it's really not on me if someone's dishonest about what he's doing. But I can also say, runaway shitbag behavior (self-will run riot) is an emotional relapse IMO. It's surely not "sober"!
"The Group demands total loyalty to the inner group. Some have had to leave the movement because of the Groups' demands which conflict with truth or duty." The Oxford Groups by Herbert H. Henson, 1933, pages 73-74.

Locked