Service wrote: clouds wrote:
Service wrote:Why does the book mean when it says this in the book
“Our egomania digs two disastrous pitfalls, Either we insist upon dominating the people we know, or we depend upon them fare to much”
is it talking about you and me or do you think it is about sponsor and co-dependent or both? Or do you thinks it's not even talking about us and someone else?
An honest question deserves an honest answer !
Please don't attack me here again attack where it came from
your quote from the 12x12 page 53, Step Four, speaks to alcoholics. It surely is talking about me and I am an alcoholic. Its really hard to negotiate any relationship with a person without dominating or depending. Since it speaks to Alcoholocs, then it also means sponsors and sponsees too.
Thats as honest as I can be about that sentence from the 12 and 12, page 53, Step 4. No need to attqck you about where it comes from, it is a good identificaion of the problems in many relationships between people.
I'd personally like to only have relationships with a Higher Power at all times myself. I do seperate people as human powers from the Higher Power. For me God isnt every material thing. I believe God is present everywhere, but not that God is everything in a material sense. Human power failed me and honestly for me it is of little avail in any situation.
I had a sponsor who guided me through the first few steps, 1 through 5. After that she moved half way across the country and I never really used a sponsor any more. I have been sober through the steps of AA for many many years.
I hope what I share leads people to find their own way of living sober, personal dependence on a Higher Power is the fundamental root of the solution to sobriety.
Best wishes on your sober journey.
edited: because I capitalized Human Power, lol!
You had a sponsor who guided you through 1 - 5 steps?
Question, Step 1. How did your sponsor convince you you were an alcoholic?
Step 2. How did your sponsor get you to believe in their God?
Step 3. Why would you turn your life and will over when you already have a sponsor?
Step 4. How did your sponsor help you when they weren't even there regarding your past inventory
Step 5. Did the same person help you here to?
Can you share with us personally, without being general on how your personal willingness was of no use and you sponsor was?
"your quote from the 12x12 page 53, Step Four, speaks to alcoholics. It surely is talking about me and I am an alcoholic. Its really hard to negotiate any relationship with a person without dominating or depending. Since it speaks to Alcoholocs, then it also means sponsors and sponsees too."
My quote or A.A's ?
The difference between animals and all people are people easily lie and deceive themselves. "then it also means sponsors and sponsees too." LOL
Oh ya - I edited too, to add this, it's no sin is it? just joking, don't go ask your sponsor.
Step one, My sponsor didn't convince me I was an alcoholic. I knew I was an alcoholic before I called AA and was taken to my first meeting.
Step Two, my sponsor didn't get me to believe in her god, infact she wouldn't even try. I had to find a Higher Power so that I could take step two as sincerely and honestly as was possible for me and then go on with the steps.
Step Three, I turned my life and will over to My Creator, not to my sponsor. My sponsor didn't take the role of a god in my life. She carried the message of AA, shared with me her experience of doing the steps and directed me to work the steps to the best of my ability as written in the Book of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Step Four, I was responsible to see and understand my defects of character. That was not my sponsor who did that work. Having done step three, with the help of My Creator I believe I was as honest, thorough and unafraid as it was possible for me to be at that time.
Step five, Some of my fifth step was taken with my sponsor, other parts of it were done with a person who is a spiritual advisor.
I don't understand your question about personal willingness. No human power, and not my own will was enough to get me sober. My sponsor was a person experienced in sobriety for many years and was the person who first guided me through the steps. She helped me to understand what was being said in the BB of AA. I was not educated in spiritual things when I came to AA and I was just 24, I was also very fogged up by alcoholfor some months. I needed many words in the BB explained to me, as I didn't know what pride, self pity, resentment, self centerdness were. I had to ask myself what all the spiritual concepts in the Book of AA meant to me, and I needed help even to know what many of those words concerning the steps meant.
About animals, they are innocent and humans often deceive themselves and others. I believe that is true.
Service, I rsponded to your question about what is in the 12 x 12. You asked and I gave you my honest answer. I thought you were discussing a sort of co-dependency inAA between sponsors and sponsees. sorry if I couldn't answer in a way that was more clear. I apologize if I misundérstood what you asked.
I understand from the first paragraph of the chapter 'How it Works' that if we have the capacity to be honest, we have a better than average chance to stay sober if we are willing to do the 12 steps.I hope you keep asking questions until you have found some answers that continue to help you be in the solution that the Steps have for alcoholism.
" Burn the idea into the consciousness of every man that he can get well regardless of anyone. The only condition is that he trust in God and clean house." page 98 A.A.