OMG - Honest questions deserves honest answers !

Most of us who recovered with AA's program did so with the help of a "sponsor". But what is sponsorship? How do I get one? Who can be a sponsor? What makes a good sponsor?
Service
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OMG - Honest questions deserves honest answers !

Post by Service » Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:09 am

Honest questions deserves honest answers

If God could and would if sought - and "personal willingness is the key' and one is already here in a fellowship what is the craze about with all the co-dependent administers that is a requirement ? religious FOLLOW attitude for pry already here or don't join which IMO is clearly just another religion apart from A.A spiritual program.

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Re: OMG - Honest questions deserves honest answers !

Post by Niagara » Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:31 am

I don't see questions - only mad rants about sponsorship, governMental attitudes and a whole lot of hate. I think you don't even see the irony.

If the question is about why get a sponsor, well, I already explained it to you on another thread - my reason. I could trust god to guide me in a boat across a river...but if there's a pilot available that already knows the route it might save me a lot of pain in the long run. Doesn't mean he's going to forever run my life when I reach the other side ;)

I know that doesn't fit with what you believe. Tough. I'm not getting sober to keep you happy, or soothe your feelings. Don't need you to like, or approve of me. We *really* all get by now that you don't like sponsorship. There is *really* no need to keep slamming that fact on to the end of every single thread that was ever made. and there is really no need to keep attempting to explain to you why some - not all - of us, value the sponsorship system. What I wrote above covers it. End of story. You're not going to get a different answer, and just because you don't like that doesn't make us all raving co-dependents, and nor does it mean we're all wrong, and you're right - or vice versa. I couldn't give a rats backside if you use a sponsor, or the next 50 alcoholics to come in use a sponsor, for that matter. Personal choice. Please allow that courtesy to those of us who CHOOSE to use a sponsor.

As a moderator, I am sick and fed up of having to monitor what spamfest you are going to post next. It's tiresome. Vexatious to my spirit.
If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month -
Theodore Roosevelt

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Brock
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Re: OMG - Honest questions deserves honest answers !

Post by Brock » Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:42 am

You know Service some of us might actually think you have a point, I for one agree that over-dependence on a sponsor reduces our dependence on our higher power, which is where the book says it should be. I have never had a sponsor, and speak about this when I think there is an appropriate reason and forum to say such things.

You idea of just “willy nilly” making a bunch of statements on separate threads, and now starting your own thread, is quite off putting, and in no way furthers your cause. For example what the hell does this line mean -
what is the craze about with all the co-dependent administers that is a requirement ? religious FOLLOW attitude for pry already here or don't join which IMO is clearly just another religion apart from A.A spiritual program.

For heavens sake man! I ran that through my spell check and smoke came out of my computer, your writing does not make sense, and anyone reading this stuff will think if that is what happens without a sponsor they better get one quick.

And like Niagara I am also a moderator, as she says we are kind of tired of this, I don't think the other members here would blame the moderation team, if we voted for and gave you an imposed rest and reflect time out.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."

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Re: OMG - Honest questions deserves honest answers !

Post by leejosepho » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:02 am

Brock wrote:...And like Niagara I am also a moderator, as she says we are kind of tired of this, I don't think the other members here would blame the moderation team, if we voted for and gave you an imposed rest and reflect time out.
I once was a moderator here, and you can add my vote there if that might mean anything.

I had a sponsor for my first three months and he was the one who got me started a bit while always emphasizing "Read the book to know who to listen to and to learn -- learn to listen (to God) and listen (to God) to learn -- then learn to do what is shared in the book and then share with others what you learned." More relevantly here, however, he also made certain no "GovernMental" bullhocky ever took place and he even warned us about people who knew the truth but do not tell others because it makes them feel good about themselves to see others suffer under their tutelage.

I next had a sponsor for a few months a year or so later, and he was the one who helped me with the Steps...and the last time I contacted him he did not even remember me. So, I must not have been a trophy of his!

We know the deal, Service, and nobody who visits this site will ever be GovernMental-controlled by anyone here...so I would encourage to go hit as many meetings as possible in other places where that kind of thing actually *is* going on...and yet I do know the people who do that kind of stuff are typically so good at it that neither you nor I can actually pull someone from their clutches.

Wanna be helpful? Just share your own experience with "trust in God and clean house" without crapping it all up with commentary.
Last edited by leejosepho on Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
=======================
"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
("Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill, emphasis added)
=======================

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Re: OMG - Honest questions deserves honest answers !

Post by Service » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:05 am

This is not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with someone - we will leave that up to the outside system and their praises for that - this is about understanding what A.A is trying to tell us instead of all the people praise rs look at the second comment look at the topic -look at the rant in the second comment - look at the topic now read through the second comment -right out of the gate - Now google A.A outside sponsorship out of control in A.A these people they/Sponsors ran off in A.A had to go somewhere - Keep an open mind and just take a closer look -
Question: What does an outside sponsor do to a co-pendant that a group/fellowship cannot do?
Honest question deserves an honest answer - not a praise protection like in the second comment.

Question: what does the Big Book say about it? Honest question deserves an honest answer
Will this be missing soon too?

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Re: OMG - Honest questions deserves honest answers !

Post by leejosepho » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:12 am

Service wrote:this is about understanding what A.A is...
Sounds right to me. Just do that and nothing else and all will be well.
=======================
"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
("Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill, emphasis added)
=======================

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Re: OMG - Honest questions deserves honest answers !

Post by Service » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:16 am

The fellowship does for me what 1000K sponsors could not even come close to doing and God does for us what we cannot do for our self's are you stating the Big should be co-dependent on a sponsor or the Big Book and Fellowship is enough?

Question: Big Book Quote " A vision for you one man with this book in your hand. We believe and hope it contains all you will need to begin."
What does A.A not you mean by this statement?
For you to fix someone else?

And now you and your friends call the Big Book a rant ?

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Re: OMG - Honest questions deserves honest answers !

Post by Service » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:27 am

If not locked up this will be a great spiritual conformation for the non co- dependent and maybe a spiritual awaking for the Co- Depend !!

Do you have any questions here or just opinions? what comes around can go around and around.
Question: will this forum be missing comments too? or can the Co-dependents gain just a little faith and let go at the least on this topic?

IMO: It's not the GovernMental we are talking about here and it's not about the alcoholic already here, it's about the message in the big book not another messenger !
Question: Interesting there is a reason why the word /label "sponsor" is not mentioned in the 164 pages of the program - yet God is - Why is that?
Question Why does the Traditions of A.A mention there shall be no labels is A.A ? - Can it be because one gets easily diverted by these people rather than the A.A message?
Last edited by Service on Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: OMG - Honest questions deserves honest answers !

Post by Layne » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:35 am

Service wrote:The fellowship does for me what 1000K sponsors could not even come close to doing and God does for us what we cannot do for our self's
This is you sharing your ESH which is a wonderful thing. It is one of the very cornerstones of the program.

Sharing opinions is not one of the cornerstones.

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Re: OMG - Honest questions deserves honest answers !

Post by avaneesh912 » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:51 am

This fellowship is littered with hard drunks like service. They don't have to write a inventory and share it with another person to have a spiritual awakening. But real alcoholics do. These hard-drinkers think others can do the same. Its out of their own experience, they swear.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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Re: OMG - Honest questions deserves honest answers !

Post by Niagara » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:57 am

protégé
noun
a person who is guided and supported by an older and more experienced or influential person.
Even though your protege may not have entirely admitted his condition, he has become very curious to know how you got well. Let him ask you that question, if he will. Tell him exactly what happened to you. Stress the spiritual feature freely.
simply lay out the kit of spiritual tools for his inspection. Show him how they worked with you. Offer him friendship and fellowship. Tell him that if he wants to get well you will do anything to help.
Suppose now you are making your second visit to a man. He has read this volume and says he is prepared to go through with the Twelve Steps of the program of recovery. Having had the experience yourself, you can give him much practical advice.
All of those above quotes would appear to suggest a guide is needed in this, right down to the word protege.

I found - and it might just be my area that is terrible - if I listened to the fellowship, that's a whole lot of voices, with a whole lot of opinions, mostly, 'you don't need to bother with step 11, I just do an inventory when I'm having a bad day, I've never done an inventory past the step 4 one and I'm still sober, and I know you'll love this one 'I call my sponsor 3 times a day, and they make all my big decisions for me, can I tell you all my problems so you can fix em?'

Listening to the fellowship....you can imagine where I would have ended up. The fellowship of AA is only as good as the programs people are working - or not, as the case may be.

I only heard one person mention the word God, in meetings. The man I now call sponsor. I thank that man from the bottom of my heart for what he's done for me, but I can tell you right now, I am free to go at any time - I've seen that happen. If I asked him to make my decisions for me, he'd laugh me right out of his house. If I called him 3 times a day he'd likely put me on block for harassing him. I did try once discussing my marriage with him. His words were 'Do I look like a relationship therapist?'. He did take me through the chapter 'the family afterwards' though. He IS however, my go to person if there's anything I did that should be discussed with another person immediately. He is also willing to teach recovery stuff - from the big book and other books besides, that frankly wouldn't make much sense to me reading by myself. This stuff comes alive when you have other people around you on the same path...and I value highly someone who has been working this for a lot of years. I value the insight, the wisdom and the knowledge.

SOME sponsorship is controlling and co dependent......but don't tar it all with the same brush. The big book does suggest that a guide in this is necessary - for both parties.
If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month -
Theodore Roosevelt

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Re: OMG - Honest questions deserves honest answers !

Post by Service » Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:04 am

Layne wrote:
Service wrote:The fellowship does for me what 1000K sponsors could not even come close to doing and God does for us what we cannot do for our self's
This is you sharing your ESH which is a wonderful thing. It is one of the very cornerstones of the program.

Sharing opinions is not one of the cornerstones.
My ESH? No, This came from a loving God, not me or you my dear, we will leave your games up to yourself.

Q: Why do you and your kind want to make A.A about yourself or our self when it's about the message in the 164 pages of the Big Book already? :idea:
Q: The way your kind acts and sounds , your strength your sponsor. yes / no
Q: The way your kind sounds your experience is what it's all about - what about an awaking of some sort and not a governMental experience.
Q: There was a reason they change the 12th step from having had a spiritual experience to awaking as all A.A care takers know.
There is a lot of question, do co-dependents have any themselves ? or do they have to ask their outside sponsor first. LOL rule 64

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Re: OMG - Honest questions deserves honest answers !

Post by Niagara » Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:11 am

Service wrote: Question Why does the Traditions of A.A mention there shall be no labels is A.A ? - Can it be because one gets easily diverted by these people rather than the A.A message?
Could you direct me to where it says this? I'm looking (at both long and short form).......it's been a long day, granted...but I can't see it.
If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month -
Theodore Roosevelt

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Re: OMG - Honest questions deserves honest answers !

Post by Service » Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:16 am

Niagara wrote:protégé
noun
a person who is guided and supported by an older and more experienced or influential person.
Even though your protege may not have entirely admitted his condition, he has become very curious to know how you got well. Let him ask you that question, if he will. Tell him exactly what happened to you. Stress the spiritual feature freely.
simply lay out the kit of spiritual tools for his inspection. Show him how they worked with you. Offer him friendship and fellowship. Tell him that if he wants to get well you will do anything to help.
Suppose now you are making your second visit to a man. He has read this volume and says he is prepared to go through with the Twelve Steps of the program of recovery. Having had the experience yourself, you can give him much practical advice.
All of those above quotes would appear to suggest a guide is needed in this, right down to the word protege.

I found - and it might just be my area that is terrible - if I listened to the fellowship, that's a whole lot of voices, with a whole lot of opinions, mostly, 'you don't need to bother with step 11, I just do an inventory when I'm having a bad day, I've never done an inventory past the step 4 one and I'm still sober, and I know you'll love this one 'I call my sponsor 3 times a day, and they make all my big decisions for me, can I tell you all my problems so you can fix em?'

Listening to the fellowship....you can imagine where I would have ended up. The fellowship of AA is only as good as the programs people are working - or not, as the case may be.

I only heard one person mention the word God, in meetings. The man I now call sponsor. I thank that man from the bottom of my heart for what he's done for me, but I can tell you right now, I am free to go at any time - I've seen that happen. If I asked him to make my decisions for me, he'd laugh me right out of his house. If I called him 3 times a day he'd likely put me on block for harassing him. I did try once discussing my marriage with him. His words were 'Do I look like a relationship therapist?'. He did take me through the chapter 'the family afterwards' though. He IS however, my go to person if there's anything I did that should be discussed with another person immediately. He is also willing to teach recovery stuff - from the big book and other books besides, that frankly wouldn't make much sense to me reading by myself. This stuff comes alive when you have other people around you on the same path...and I value highly someone who has been working this for a lot of years. I value the insight, the wisdom and the knowledge.

SOME sponsorship is controlling and co dependent......but don't tar it all with the same brush. The big book does suggest that a guide in this is necessary - for both parties.

Surly it is plan to see the person is not in A.A nor knows of A.A "second visit" that why we need an outside sponsorship system to bring them in not help them out and stay co dependent on people places and things -- Take a closer look.
Q: What is the reason the Big Book states that we will be easily diverted by people places and things?
Your question how people get so well you can find in the Big Book, A vision for you: "We know what you are thinking. You are saying to yourself: "I’m jittery and alone. I couldn’t do that." But you can. You forget that you have just now tapped a source of power much greater than yourself. To duplicate, with such backing, what we have accomplished is only a matter of willingness, patience and labor. "

"one man with this book in your hand. We believe and hope it contains all you will need to begin. "

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Re: OMG - Honest questions deserves honest answers !

Post by Service » Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:19 am

Niagara wrote:
Service wrote: Question Why does the Traditions of A.A mention there shall be no labels is A.A ? - Can it be because one gets easily diverted by these people rather than the A.A message?
Could you direct me to where it says this? I'm looking (at both long and short form).......it's been a long day, granted...but I can't see it.
OH MY, sure I will - you really don't know that? It's probably because it's in the TRADITIONS of A.A instead of a co dependent. you can find it in A.A Traditions after the Book was wrote and needed to protect A.A from the menacing forces that were injected inside

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