"Virtual" sponsor vs f2f

Most of us who recovered with AA's program did so with the help of a "sponsor". But what is sponsorship? How do I get one? Who can be a sponsor? What makes a good sponsor?

Re: "Virtual" sponsor vs f2f

Postby D'oh » Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:57 pm

leejosepho wrote:
D'oh wrote:I am with the pre Digital Group here.

Checking my personal filters here: Is that like "taking sides" on an internal controversy?

So what did you find?
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Re: "Virtual" sponsor vs f2f

Postby leejosepho » Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:16 am

D'oh wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
D'oh wrote:I am with the pre Digital Group here.

Checking my personal filters here: Is that like "taking sides" on an internal controversy?

So what did you find?

I would need a Yes/No answer from yourself in order to know for certain, but I am certainly not demanding an answer. And my reason for asking is related to possibly helping to avert the kind of harm I have seen done at various times when certain newcomers have asked questions of their own in relation to alcoholism and recovery and then receive no answers while being drilled or hammered by others who have "taken sides" about online help allegedly being marginal at best.
=======================
"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
("Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill, emphasis added)
=======================
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Re: "Virtual" sponsor vs f2f

Postby D'oh » Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:01 am

leejosepho wrote:I would need a Yes/No answer from yourself in order to know for certain, but I am certainly not demanding an answer. And my reason for asking is related to possibly helping to avert the kind of harm I have seen done at various times when certain newcomers have asked questions of their own in relation to alcoholism and recovery and then receive no answers while being drilled or hammered by others who have "taken sides" about online help allegedly being marginal at best.

Ok I will let "Db" spell it out for me. As he did prior your request.

Db1105 wrote:I suggest that you read AAWS's pamphlet 'Questions and Answers on Sponsorship'. You can read it online at:
http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/p-15_Q&AonSpon.pdf

Having gotten sober pre digital age, having an "online" sponsor is something I can't fathom. In addition of guiding me through the steps, my sponsor got me involved with service starting with cleaning ash trays, taking a coffee commitment, taking me to institution commitments to detox, rehabs, hospitals and prisons. He also took me to Intergroup and GSO meetings and eventually got me to serve in that area. Most important, right from the beginning, my sponsor took me on 12 step calls. That was one thing that really woke me up to the real horror of the disease of alcoholism.

IMHO, virtual recovery should be just one item in recovery, not a major part of it. (except for those living in remote areas). again, just my opinion.


Thanks Db, exactly the way I feel.
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Re: "Virtual" sponsor vs f2f

Postby whipping post » Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:38 am

I can't believe 2grand daughters hasn't chimed in here. Isn't he the one that says "I didn't get virtually drunk and I can't get virtually sober".
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Re: "Virtual" sponsor vs f2f

Postby leejosepho » Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:44 am

D'oh wrote:Ok I will let "Db" spell it out for me.

I see no simple Yes/No there anywhere, and that is fine, and I also definitely already know all the arguments.

My wife (age withheld ;)) works as a bank teller alongside much-younger people also attending the needs of even still many others who know virtually nothing at all of anything "pre-digital". Based upon her own direct observations, she has concluded that many of them actually seem quite incapable of facing face-to-face communication. Maybe my wife is wrong in the conclusions she has drawn there.
=======================
"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
("Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill, emphasis added)
=======================
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Re: "Virtual" sponsor vs f2f

Postby avaneesh912 » Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:47 am

Its so funny. We alcoholics have to opine on every thing that is going on. Yesterday at a meeting, a guy said how he sensed that his wife was squriley and offered her a glass of wine (to show that he has been placed in a position of neutrality and that he didn't even for a second miss that he is n't drinking). Out came another person who has to butt into what this guy did. Oh I, instead of giving her a glass of wine, I would enquire whats going on her her life and how can he help her, perhaps give her a massage...dah dah dah....

I got all me facts about working the steps from workshops and used my sponsor just to do the 5th step. Even the current sponsor we have, we almost met the 2nd time almost after a month, communicating just over phone, text and emails. its almost got a virtual sponsor.

In the how it works section, if you read it closely, you will see "honesty" tossed around several times. I strongly believe, if the person is honest, he/she can have the same kind of recovery like anyother. Gosh some the meetings go around where I live, I would be better off staying home. Sometimes thats how I feel.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: "Virtual" sponsor vs f2f

Postby D'oh » Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:04 am

leejosepho wrote:
D'oh wrote:Ok I will let "Db" spell it out for me.

I see no simple Yes/No there anywhere, and that is fine, and I also definitely already know all the arguments.

My wife (age withheld ;)) works as a bank teller alongside much-younger people also attending the needs of even still many others who know virtually nothing at all of anything "pre-digital". Based upon her own direct observations, she has concluded that many of them actually seem quite incapable of facing face-to-face communication. Maybe my wife is wrong in the conclusions she has drawn there.

Well if it is a simple Y/N then I would answer F for Face to Face. PERIOD Virtual is a great Supplement but "I" need F2F to live on the right path.

I too work with the public and have to "Read" peoples Body Language every day to do my job. And that is just my job, a means to supply things for my family. Not life threatening.

Let me ask "What age am I, Am I dressed or in a housecoat, and clean shaven, Am I shaking, How many times have I retyped this reply, Any bruises, and Am I shaking, stuttering, or contemplating a made up storey to type?
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Re: "Virtual" sponsor vs f2f

Postby leejosepho » Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:21 am

D'oh wrote:"I" need F2F to live on the right path.

That is fine, but the question is about helping others even find it at all and how we can help meet their needs while placing our own secondary.
=======================
"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
("Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill, emphasis added)
=======================
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Re: "Virtual" sponsor vs f2f

Postby leejosepho » Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:50 am

avaneesh912 wrote:I strongly believe, if the person is honest, he/she can have the same kind of recovery like any other. Gosh some the meetings go around where I live, I would be better off staying home. Sometimes that's how I feel.

For myself, that is a reality and online is all I have even though sometimes I do wish I could be a bit more like you in being better able to deal with the face-to-face meetings near me. Just this morning I was in a meeting where a sufferingly-sober alcoholic still unknowingly headed toward yet another debacle had apparently either completely missed or ignored something that had already been shared, and then others just rolled their eyes and cheered the sufferer on when I made but a simple, non-combative, non-confrontive suggestion of "Please do consider (whatever)".
=======================
"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
("Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill, emphasis added)
=======================
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Re: "Virtual" sponsor vs f2f

Postby D'oh » Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:52 am

Tracy h wrote:In this developing digital age can anyone illuminate pros/cons of non-f2f vs f2f sponsorship? I'm not trying to question traditional means that have proven successful for many, but as newcomer I'm curious whether non-f2f sponsorship is viable option. I do attend f2f meetings daily, great discussion-based home group so am not avoiding engaging on that level. There are people there i could approach, but somehow I haven't found myself able to in the first month of my participation in program. I've read posts about pitfalls of ego and hope it's not just my reticence to ask in person that is fueling this question, but am thinking that at least in theory it could be interesting dialogue with technology affecting us all to no lesser degree with each passing day ... (In case this affects responses that tend towards advising benefits of f2f, I'm curious whether it is advisable that sponsor should be from home group, of similar age/background experience etc. I've read mixed on both. I am aware that same-sex, obvious success with long-term sobriety and an appreciation for "what they have" and/or share is important). Thanks T

I thought that I was helping with the Newcomer's question.

Don't get me wrong, Virtual is better than None at All, but I need Face to Face for me.
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Re: "Virtual" sponsor vs f2f

Postby leejosepho » Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:57 am

D'oh wrote:Don't get me wrong, Virtual is better than None at All, but I need Face to Face for me.

My filters are able to accept that without also concluding you are actually "taking sides" in an internal online-versus-face-to-face controversy.
=======================
"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
("Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill, emphasis added)
=======================
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Re: "Virtual" sponsor vs f2f

Postby Brock » Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:39 am

avaneesh said -
I got all me facts about working the steps from workshops and used my sponsor just to do the 5th step.

I did the same thing, one fellow who I thought might be a good choice and was about to ask, corrected me during a meeting break by waving his finger school teacher style and saying “ego ego.” I figured if that is what happens even before I ask to hell with that, got someone from the local NA who I know and trust to hear the 5th and never turned back.

Someone else said -
In addition of guiding me through the steps, my sponsor got me involved with service starting with cleaning ash trays, taking a coffee commitment, taking me to institution commitments to detox, rehabs, hospitals and prisons. He also took me to Intergroup and GSO meetings and eventually got me to serve in that area.

This is something I hear from time to time, and yet without a sponsor I did all those things. Folks who spoke in meetings said service was important so I did it, some of us just don't like others telling us what to do, and the flip side is we sometimes get newcomers here who are being pushed into service they really don't want. One lady recently was pushed into the sort of service job nobody else was willing to do, we cautioned her about the possibility of developing resentments over these things.

Lee said --
Based upon her own direct observations, she has concluded that many of them actually seem quite incapable of facing face-to-face communication. Maybe my wife is wrong in the conclusions she has drawn there.

I have a feeling your wife is spot on, I speak about this with my wife often, and I believe it is also the reason so many come here rather than meetings, fortunately we are able to encourage them by describing the meetings and saying they don't need to speak and so forth. So many with complaints about social anxiety, and saying they just don't know how to speak in front of people; well when you tippy tap everything you want to say into a stupid cell phone this is what happens. I even believe the seeming rise in gay relationships is because boys are now so scared about opening their mouths and telling girls how they feel, but that discussion has no place here. All in all I feel lucky to have grown up without the modern digital communication, but yet have the opportunity in later life to utilize it.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
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Re: "Virtual" sponsor vs f2f

Postby Service » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:24 pm

May the SPIRIT of the fellowship always be with you !

Move in with someone face to face and see how long that will last - LOL :idea:
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Re: "Virtual" sponsor vs f2f

Postby D'oh » Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:31 pm

Wow this has gotten confusing. I better ask, "Anyone want to be my Virtual sponsor?"

Honestly here is a storey, from before there was a choice. 5 Months sober, hanging out on a Saturday with my Sponsor. We had been through the steps together to the 5th and I was going through them again in a Commitment Group.

We wound up at his Sponsors house and decided to go out for coffee. On the way, my Sponsor`s Sponsor, had to stop at his Sponsor`s house for a meeting key. Yes here I was a Newbie in the Garage of a Fellow Member with a billion years of sobriety (well 25+)

I remember the back and forth conversation, hoping I wasn`t asked anything, but it happened, and was about fishing by my parents cabin. Before we left The Old timer mentioned to the 2 others `Watch out for that Mc888888 Kid, he was out last night for his first meeting, he is going to be trouble!``

2 weeks later who stayed late after a meeting and asked me to Sponsor him still shaking, the Mc88888 kid. But it worked, we both stayed sober and to this day I swear he taught me more than I ever taught him.
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Re: "Virtual" sponsor vs f2f

Postby Service » Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:56 pm

I'm curious whether non-f2f sponsorship is viable option.


Does it really matter if one cannot be honest with themselves ? Some people find a message in a bottle does the brand matter ?

If your on a path know what a path is and follow your heart instead of a fear based outside system ! :idea:
Last edited by Service on Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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