Dr. Bob "I do it for four reasons"

From that ten-cent phone call and a cup of coffee to AA's General Service Office. What's your take on service?

Dr. Bob "I do it for four reasons"

Postby Patsy© » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:42 am

From Dr. Bob's Nightmare:

"I spend a great deal of time passing on what I learned to others who want and need it badly. I do it for four reasons:

1. Sense of duty.
2. It is a pleasure.
3. Because in so doing I am paying my debt to the man who took time to pass it on to me.
4. Because every time I do it I take out a little more insurance for myself against a possible slip.

From The Big Book... page 129: "It is well to let him go as far as he likes in helping other alcoholics. During those first days of convalescence, this will do more to insure his sobriety than anything else."
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Re: Dr. Bob "I do it for four reasons"

Postby leejosepho » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:49 am

From Dr. Bob's Nightmare:

"...passing on what I learned to others who want and need it...

Dr. Bob is talking about 12th-Step work and sponsorship there, not about "service to AA" or whatever...and sometimes it can be difficult to distinguish between the two or to keep them in proper order. The Twelve Steps come first to show us the path to permanent recovery -- "restored and united under one God, with hearts and minds attuned to the welfare of others" (page 161) -- and then it can be great to also be servants within our respective, autonomous fellowship groups as we all work together for the sake of suffering others. But overall, A.A. is "spiritual organism" to be served to others -- fishers of men -- rather than any kind of material organization to be served as if we were mere keepers of an aquarium.
=======================
"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
("Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill, emphasis added)
=======================
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Re: Dr. Bob "I do it for four reasons"

Postby Patsy© » Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:35 am

leejosepho wrote:
From Dr. Bob's Nightmare:

"...passing on what I learned to others who want and need it...

Dr. Bob is talking about 12th-Step work and sponsorship there, not about "service to AA" or whatever...and sometimes it can be difficult to distinguish between the two or to keep them in proper order. The Twelve Steps come first to show us the path to permanent recovery -- "restored and united under one God, with hearts and minds attuned to the welfare of others" (page 161) -- and then it can be great to also be servants within our respective, autonomous fellowship groups as we all work together for the sake of suffering others. But overall, A.A. is "spiritual organism" to be served to others -- fishers of men -- rather than any kind of material organization to be served as if we were mere keepers of an aquarium.


In my own experience, Service in or to AA, comes in many forms, two of which are 12 step work and sponsorship.

For instance, in Dr. Bob's Nightmare, he also shares the following, right before his 4 reasons. And lets remember also that Dr. Bob continued to have an Obsession of the mind for liquor during the first two and one half years of abstinence. There were no 12 Steps when Dr. Bob first got sober....


The question which might naturally come into your mind would be: “What did the man do or say that was different from what others had done or said?” It must be remembered that I had read a great deal and talked to everyone who knew, or thought they knew anything about the subject of alcoholism. But this was a man who had experienced many years of frightful drinking, who had had most all the drunkard’s experiences known to man, but who had been cured by the very means I had been trying to employ, that is to say the spiritual approach.
He gave me information about the subject of alcoholism which was undoubtedly helpful. Of far more importance was the fact that he was the first living human with whom I had ever talked, who knew what he was talking about in regard to alcoholism from actual experience. In other words, he talked my language. He knew all the answers, and certainly not because he had picked them up in his reading.
It is a most wonderful blessing to be relieved of the terrible curse with which I was afflicted. My health is good and I have regained my self-respect and the respect of my colleagues. My home life is ideal and my business is as good as can be expected in these uncertain times.
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Re: Dr. Bob "I do it for four reasons"

Postby leejosepho » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:03 pm

Patsy© wrote:In my own experience, Service in or to AA, comes in many forms, two of which are 12 step work and sponsorship.

"Service in or to AA" is not part of the original A.A. experience, just a modern-day philosophy or perspective held by folks who do not understand.
=======================
"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
("Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill, emphasis added)
=======================
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Re: Dr. Bob "I do it for four reasons"

Postby Patsy© » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:32 pm

leejosepho wrote:
Patsy© wrote:In my own experience, Service in or to AA, comes in many forms, two of which are 12 step work and sponsorship.

"Service in or to AA" is not part of the original A.A. experience, just a modern-day philosophy or perspective held by folks who do not understand.



Considering that there was no AA in the Oxford Group, then of course there was no Service In or to AA at that time.

The Big Book, The 12 Steps, The 12 Traditions and The 12 Concepts were not part of the original AA experience either, and without those, there would be No Alcoholics Anonymous.

And of course you weren't part of the original AA experience either.... so lets not be silly ok? :lol:
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Re: Dr. Bob "I do it for four reasons"

Postby leejosepho » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:39 pm

You can be certain I am not being silly. The Big Book shares the original A.A. experience where neither 12th-Step work nor sponsorship are ever called "Service". Today, however, and even though Dr. Bob used to say the book was written to keep things from being twisted and garbled beyond all recognition, his own words are now sometimes used to do exactly that.
=======================
"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
("Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill, emphasis added)
=======================
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Re: Dr. Bob "I do it for four reasons"

Postby Brock » Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:05 pm

Welcome back Lee, we haven't had you here in over a year.

So what if 'service' is not mentioned as part of the 'original' AA, and maybe it's still not a good thing to consider sponsoring an individual, or going on a 12th step call as service to AA. But being a trusted servant, and using the words giving service, in every area of AA's operations is quite accepted, Bill even wrote the service manual to guide us in that. I don't think if he or Bob were around, they would say something like you did here -
"Service in or to AA" is not part of the original A.A. experience, just a modern-day philosophy or perspective held by folks who do not understand.

But overall, A.A. is "spiritual organism" to be served to others -- fishers of men -- rather than any kind of material organization to be served as if we were mere keepers of an aquarium.

He might have grimaced at that and said keep it simple. A discussion of the type that works best here, usually doesn’t contain statements, like might be made by a professor to errant students. It's a discussion forum not a lecture, I am afraid such statements are a definite discussion killer.
The seed has been planted in his mind. He knows that thousands of men, much like himself, have recovered. B.B. P.113
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Re: Dr. Bob "I do it for four reasons"

Postby Patsy© » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:11 pm

leejosepho wrote:You can be certain I am not being silly. The Big Book shares the original A.A. experience where neither 12th-Step work nor sponsorship are ever called "Service". Today, however, and even though Dr. Bob used to say the book was written to keep things from being twisted and garbled beyond all recognition, his own words are now sometimes used to do exactly that.



Well, one thing that Dr. Bob shared that wasn't twisted and garbled is this:
From Dr. Bob's Nightmare:

"I spend a great deal of time passing on what I learned to others who want and need it badly. I do it for four reasons:
1. Sense of duty.
2. It is a pleasure.
3. Because in so doing I am paying my debt to the man who took time to pass it on to me.
4. Because every time I do it I take out a little more insurance for myself against a possible slip.


I realize that you would like for me to keep replying to what I still consider silly. However, I am simply not interested.
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