whats 13th stepping

The 12 Traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous, the principles that hold our groups and society together.

whats 13th stepping

Postby hussar » Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:36 pm

I have heard this term in meetings. can anyone tell me what it means please?
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Re: whats 13th stepping

Postby The Pooka » Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:54 pm

"When boy meets girl on AA campus, trouble is soon to follow."

Every once in awhile, we get some coming to AA thinking it's some kind of pick-up joint. I have even seen some men who prey on newly sober women who are most vunerable. That's why we say, "Men with men and women with women."
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Re: whats 13th stepping

Postby hussar » Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:04 pm

Many thanks so is what you are saying it like an ironic use - it does not exist as a step its taking step 12 to far?. Everyone I have met seems so nice.
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Re: whats 13th stepping

Postby The Pooka » Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:57 pm

:D :D :D

There is another saying in AA. " If you like everyone you meet in AA, then you are not going to enough meetings."

Listen, I don't mean to be negative or to be dis-couraging but people are people no matter where they are.
We are not bad people trying to get good, we are sick people trying to get well. Some are sicker then others.

Just stick with the winners and you'll be fine. The winners are those whose actions match their words.

:coffeecup:
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Re: whats 13th stepping

Postby curtis s » Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:50 pm

To borrow a phrase from a song. "Every brother's not a brother" Not everyone you meet in AA will have your best interests at heart and even some of those who do will be seriously confused and misguided. AA is an absolutely wonderful fellowship but we need to remember not only why we are here but why everyone else is here also. Since many of us use relationships and sex the way we used alcohol this is especially true when it comes to these issues within AA

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Re: whats 13th stepping

Postby layla21 » Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:13 am

This is especially true of the sponsor/sponsee relationship.

And more so in the case of the newcomer with a history of violent sexual abuse. Such a person is usually co-dependent in the extreme - putty in the sponsor's/old-timer's hands. Abuse is laughably easy. And abuse it is, because of the neediness of the victim.

The sponsor is often seen as a counsellor. They are not. Any counsellor would know that to meddle in any way with such a vicitm will certainly have catastrophic results for the victim.

The newcomer's behaviour declines pitifully and inevitably as they struggle to cope with the messing of their minds. Then the sponsor, or indeed old-timer, tiring of the behaviour their 13th stepping has provoked, walks away saying 'It is not my problem, they are just one of those unfortunates.'

The final nail in the coffin.

The victim is left far more damaged than before they came into AA. Trust and faith are shattered along with their chance of recovery.

If the notion of sponsorship, not mentioned in the BB, is to be acceptable, old-timers must be vigilant for the vulnerable.

I have no wish to frighten the newcomer, merely to warn them that old timers should be sharing 'what worked for them' and no more. They are simply not qualified to do anything else.
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Re: whats 13th stepping

Postby Jim 725 » Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:27 am

Step 13: My life is unmanageable-I want to share it with you.
"We are not bad people trying to get good, we are sick people trying to get well."
If that's the case, Steps 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 are unnecessary, right?
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Re: whats 13th stepping

Postby ccadapt » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:02 am

The 13th step...

Didn't happen to me, but I spoke with a newcomer that has had relations with men with some AA time. Shame, humilation, fear, and lack of trust in the motives of AA members. Now there are meetings where she doesn't want to go, for fear of seeing them. What a disservice they have done to one of our own! "Some are sicker than others."

She's very young, and she says the men are the only ones who come up to her to talk. She is concerned about the way she dresses, vibes that signal "I'm vulnerable, prey on me." Possibly true. She is examining her part.

What can I do? Make certain that I go to newcomers, or women who look uncomfortable and let them know they are welcome. I have encouraged her to gravitate to knots of women talking after meetings, even if she doesn't know them.

DO NO HARM
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Re: whats 13th stepping

Postby SteveC » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:20 am

As was said above, that's why we say guys with the guys & gals with the gals. This is especially important with sponsors. There is no way a gal can help a guy with certain problems and visa versa. There are just certain issues that some women have that I simply can't have an understanding of. They need to have a woman sponsor.

Another definition of 13 stepping is explaining the 12 steps from a horizontal position.

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Re: whats 13th stepping

Postby littlemissperfecto » Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:02 pm

Well it's good to see the funny side, huh? Probably needs a man's humour though. Bypassed me entirely.

And we can't have a perspective of anyone's issues - only our own drink problem that's all. We'd do well to remember that.
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Re: whats 13th stepping

Postby Blue Moon » Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:07 am

3 things about 13th Stepping:

1. It's not only men who do it. First case I saw was a woman with 20 years' sobriety.

2. Sober alcoholics are not immune to human nature. Relationships between men and women is human nature, far more so than drinking yourself under a table is human nature.

3. I'm convinced it's really a symptom of poor 12th Stepping amongst the other members. If the problem is females getting 13th Stepped in a group, the sober women in that group need to take a look in the mirror instead of blaming males. If the sober women really looked after the newcomer women instead of indulging their own clique coffee morning, 13th Stepping by men would be much less likely to occur. I've lost count of the number of occasions I've sat in a meeting observing a female newcomer standing alone looking lost whilst surrounded by women having a natter amongst themselves.
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Re: whats 13th stepping

Postby hussar » Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:31 am

The suggestion that men (oh, so concerned men) hitting on vulnerable women is the fault of other women for not talking to them is staggering. Can't see that one in the AA literature anywhere. The men could just try talking to them only in meetings or take the trouble to introduce them to someone!

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Re: whats 13th stepping

Postby lonelygirl » Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:42 am

Some - like paedophiles - stalk on the internet where there is no protection for the vulnerable.
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Re: whats 13th stepping

Postby Jake B » Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:58 am

13th stepping is not a STEP
the 13th step is dying SOBER!!!!!!!!!
13th steping as in having relations with a newcomer. very unhealthy for both guilty parties


AS FOR AA IT FALLS INTO TRADITION 10 "AA HAS NO OPINION ON OUTSIDE ISSUES HINCE THE AA NAME OUGHT NEVER BE DRAWN INTO PUBLIC CONTROVERST"!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: whats 13th stepping

Postby Jake B » Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:04 pm

ENOUGH SAID CLOSE THREAD........ L0L
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