Tradition five

The 12 Traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous, the principles that hold our groups and society together.

Tradition five

Postby waggieboy » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:59 pm

My home group rents a hall for daily A.A. meetings and is not a club. We have a big circle and triangle sign out front. According to our group by-laws, we can rent or let other 12 step groups use our hall. I have a problem with this. Are we not endorsing another cause by doing this, are we not being allied with an outside enterprise? Are we not being diverted from our primary purpose? (carrying the message to the ALCOHOLIC who still suffers). I think this is a bad by-law, as A.A. traditions must come first. Does this not go against the A.A. preamble and go against tradition five, tradition one, tradition six, tradition seven and tradition ten? Old timers --What say you?
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Re: Tradition five

Postby powerlessoveralcohol » Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:40 pm

Hello.
My home group decides business matters based on a consensus of the Group conscience. Was that the case here?
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Re: Tradition five

Postby waggieboy » Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:53 pm

Yes it was voted in by group conscience, according to group by-law, but i feel we are going against muliple traditions. I will go along with whatever group conscience determines. I'm not resentful enough yet to get a coffee pot and start my own meeting. God is always in charge not me (or so i'm learning).
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Re: Tradition five

Postby jak » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:52 pm

waggieboy wrote:My home group rents a hall for daily A.A. meetings and is not a club. We have a big circle and triangle sign out front. According to our group by-laws, we can rent or let other 12 step groups use our hall. I have a problem with this. Are we not endorsing another cause by doing this, are we not being allied with an outside enterprise? Are we not being diverted from our primary purpose? (carrying the message to the ALCOHOLIC who still suffers). I think this is a bad by-law, as A.A. traditions must come first. Does this not go against the A.A. preamble and go against tradition five, tradition one, tradition six, tradition seven and tradition ten? Old timers --What say you?


You say it is a rented hall and yet you say it is the group's hall. If it is rented is there not a landlord who owns it?
If other groups made arraingements with the landlord, and your group were 'outside' of that transaction, then there would be less conflict with Traditions. There would simply be a matter of cooperation and communication for scheduling and arrangements of the set up of the rooms. Letting the landlord be in control of management property keeps the Group free to focus on the Steps and the Traditions. Housekeeping would become the main issue that could become a problem between the groups if a mess is left uncleaned.

Also, you say your group "...can rent or let other 12 Step groups use..." Are you doing so? Or is this just a possibility? We see this as 'Cooperation without affiliation.'

jimk

As an example; posting a notice at that "OUR AA GROUP HAS MADE THIS MEETING PLACE POSSIBLE FOR THE (other) 12 STEP GROUP." would be an example of actual endorsement and/or alignment. We also need to avoid appearing to be aligned even when we are not actually involved with the other fellowship. So, safeguards need to be employed when facilities are shared.

My AA group rents a hall that is also used by an NA group. When the AA group meets the NA books pamphlets and anouncements are stored away and only AA material is visible and visa-versa for the NA meetings. The schedule is separated and the anouncements are not combined. AA has their own seperate meeting lists and flyers that do not include info about NA (but Al-Anon is included with the AA District meeting info card.)

Each group has it's own relationship with the landlord. Rent is not combined.
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Re: Tradition five

Postby waggieboy » Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:57 pm

Thanks Jak, Although we (AA) pay the rent, the group left the landlord out of the loop on this. AA has been the only program renting the hall since forever. It is more than a possibility as the group gave approval at our last bussiness meeting 3 days ago. I agree that this is endorsing other causes and if they are going to help us pay any bills that therfore breaks the 7th tradition. Thanks again.
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Re: Tradition five

Postby syedshah20 » Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:01 am

Part of the answer may be historical also. To understand and apply the twelve traditions one must understand a certain amount of AA history and why the traditions came to exist-something we don't do a very good job of teaching the newcomer. As an example-I mentioned Bill W and Ebby during a meeting the other day. After the meeting a lady came up and asked who Bill W and Ebby were???? Understanding our history-important.

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Re: Tradition five

Postby ann2 » Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:07 am

Welcome syedshah20, thanks for your post! Good to have you here.

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Re: Tradition five

Postby PaigeB » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:15 am

a lady came up and asked who Bill W and Ebby were

Maybe because "Ebby" through her off and she didn't put it ALL together. Funny, a lot of people know who Bill W. is, but if you say Bill & Bob they are like "Who?"

To ADD to our history, the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous, Is on the Library of Congress's Books that Most Changed our Country. Maybe because a lot of geniuses stopped dying in the gutters drunk.

Another great read for those interested in the the Traditions is AA Comes of Age.
If I'm not able to say how I'm working my program today, then I'm not working my program.
The e-AA Group's 7th Tradition link: www.e-aa.org/group_seventh.php
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Re: Tradition five

Postby harry71 » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:46 am

I love AA history. My sponsor said it was part of recovery. For me it puts things in context. How did these things happen, just out of the blue? One example - Bill, Ebby, Roland and Lois where together at a children's camp when they were teenagers. One other fact that for me is amazing-non-alcoholics played much more of a part in our fellowship that alkies did in the beginning. Please read the history and you will gain a greater sense of the divine nature of what we are.
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