3rd Tradition Long Form

The 12 Traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous, the principles that hold our groups and society together.

Re: 3rd Tradition Long Form

Postby ezdzit247 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:47 pm

OnPoint wrote:
avaneesh912 wrote:The long form clearly indicates membership is for people who suffer from alcoholism right? Do we ever sit and see if the member is really alcoholic? All we ask today is if he/she has a desire to stop drinking. Something to ponder.


Your statement clearly indicates that your definition of alcoholism is vastly different from mine. First, as I understand it a person can be "suffering from alcoholism" whether or not they believe they are an alcoholic. In my own case I was sober for months before I could admit to myself that maybe I was actually an alcoholic. Second, you said

avaneesh912 wrote:Do we ever sit and see if the member is really alcoholic?


No, I never do this, nor do I feel that it is ever appropriate that I should. This is a decision that only the individual is capable of making. If someone had tried to "qualify" me I would have had to admit that I didn't believe that I was an alcoholic and I would have left the program.


Well said. I totally agree with you on all points.
“To laugh often and much; to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children...to leave the world a better place...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded.” -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Re: 3rd Tradition Long Form

Postby Brock » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:58 pm


No, I never do this, nor do I feel that it is ever appropriate that I should. This is a decision that only the individual is capable of making. If someone had tried to "qualify" me I would have had to admit that I didn't believe that I was an alcoholic and I would have left the program.

I would have thought that the members making their contributions here, are all pretty experienced recovered alcoholics, and based on their ability to use this forum as they do, likely also among the better educated and sensible. Not for one second did I get the impression that anyone was hinting that we would or should 'qualify' others when they are relatively new. We all either doubted we were alcoholic and left, only to return after more suffering, or the lucky ones believed the progressive nature, and admitted over time that they did indeed qualify as an alcoholic.

Surely we are talking about people, who after warming the chairs for some time, continue to give contributions, which indicate that the program as laid out is not necessary, to the potential detriment of those newcomers who need everything the program suggests for survival. Lee says it nicely here -
...and we are not obliged to allow people who might embrace something different to take up our meeting time and/or to confuse things by sharing whatever else they might want to share.

EZ said -
There's nothing to ponder unless you believe that you or anyone else in the AA fellowship is actually qualified to engage in that kind of judgmentalism about whether or not another AA member is "really an alcoholic". Do you?

This keeps coming up, here and in the other thread that got a bit 'heated' a while ago. The qualification we are talking about is knowledge of the program, and the ability to hear someone in a meeting saying that something different works just as well. Different as in 'I didn't need the steps or a spiritual awaking,' because the AA program says a real alcoholic will not recover without such an awaking, and in our rooms and on here we follow that program.
"Good morning, this is your Higher Power speaking. I will not be needing your help today."
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Re: 3rd Tradition Long Form

Postby Reborn » Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:46 pm

Brock wrote:Surely we are talking about people, who after warming the chairs for some time, continue to give contributions, which indicate that the program as laid out is not necessary, to the potential detriment of those newcomers who need everything the program suggests for survival. .


Yes...I see this alot in the meetings I attend. Thanks for saying what needs to be said.
We have recovered, and have been given the power to help others. BB pg 132
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Re: 3rd Tradition Long Form

Postby leejosepho » Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:58 am

Reborn wrote:
Brock wrote:Surely we are talking about people, who after warming the chairs for some time, continue to give contributions, which indicate that the program as laid out is not necessary, to the potential detriment of those newcomers who need everything the program suggests for survival. .


Yes...I see this alot in the meetings I attend. Thanks for saying what needs to be said.

Yes, and I am trying to come up with some kind of way to deal with that in a way that is considerate of all. In the meeting I recently attended, at least some of the people staying sober on mere human power -- "the strength of 'the fellowship'", as "Charlie & Joe" used to call that -- spoke of things shared with them at their beginnings, and it was obvious the things they are practicing today are not the same. That is fine for them if they are staying sober and satisfied, I suppose, but where does that leave the next real alcoholic who shows up and cannot "Don't drink, one-day-at-a-time"?
=======================
"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
("Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill, emphasis added)
=======================
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Re: 3rd Tradition Long Form

Postby avaneesh912 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:35 am

but where does that leave the next real alcoholic who shows up and cannot "Don't drink, one-day-at-a-time"?


6 feet under or cremated.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Re: 3rd Tradition Long Form

Postby Db1105 » Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:57 am

leejosepho wrote:
Reborn wrote:
Brock wrote:Surely we are talking about people, who after warming the chairs for some time, continue to give contributions, which indicate that the program as laid out is not necessary, to the potential detriment of those newcomers who need everything the program suggests for survival. .


Yes...I see this alot in the meetings I attend. Thanks for saying what needs to be said.

Yes, and I am trying to come up with some kind of way to deal with that in a way that is considerate of all. In the meeting I recently attended, at least some of the people staying sober on mere human power -- "the strength of 'the fellowship'", as "Charlie & Joe" used to call that -- spoke of things shared with them at their beginnings, and it was obvious the things they are practicing today are not the same. That is fine for them if they are staying sober and satisfied, I suppose, but where does that leave the next real alcoholic who shows up and cannot "Don't drink, one-day-at-a-time"?


Or the alcoholic without an adjective.
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Re: 3rd Tradition Long Form

Postby leejosepho » Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:33 am

Db1105 wrote:
leejosepho wrote:In the meeting I recently attended, at least some of the people staying sober on mere human power -- "the strength of 'the fellowship'", as "Charlie & Joe" used to call that -- spoke of things shared with them at their beginnings, and it was obvious the things they are practicing today are not the same. That is fine for them if they are staying sober and satisfied, I suppose, but where does that leave the next real alcoholic who shows up and cannot "Don't drink, one-day-at-a-time"?


Or the alcoholic without an adjective.

The adjective is certainly unnecessary at times, but its presence is necessary in order to make the point here since the distinctions between "certain type of hard drinker", "potential alcoholic" and "real alcoholic" are at other times (such as during 12th-Step work) quite essential. And then, of course, there is the matter of the "recovered alcoholic" as someone who is still *an* alcoholic (physical allergy) who is not longer "alcoholic" or "of alcohol", so to speak, now that the problem of "no effective mental defense against the first drink" has been removed.
=======================
"We A.A.s do not *stay* away from drinking [one day at a
time] -- we *grow* away from drinking [one day at a time]."
("Lois Remembers", page 168, quoting Bill, emphasis added)
=======================
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Re: 3rd Tradition Long Form

Postby PuppyEars » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:32 pm

If the obsession has been removed and I haven't had a desire to stop drinking in a long time (because I don't drink lol), why am I still welcomed into meetings?


Earlier in this thread the subject of who is an alcoholic came into play. I can see both sides but I am here as someone who was qualified into step work by another aa member. For me to be in the business of self-diagnosis at 36 hours sober is laughable, useless, arrogant, selfish and downright stupid. My experience is every single label I ever put on myself turned out to be wrong. Depression/anxiety/drug-addict/attention disorders/suicidal/insomnia - all rubbish. The very last label I ever thought I was, was exactly what turned out to be the truth; that I was alcoholic and it just so happened, all the above self-diagnosed illnesses I gave myself all melted away once I was involved in Alcoholics Anonymous work.

For crying out loud to this day if I feel a bump in my neck, I have myself in stage 3 cancer and on my death bed by the morning. Thank GOD I am not in the business of self-diagnosis.
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Re: 3rd Tradition Long Form

Postby D'oh » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:07 pm

If everything in someone's life is going fine while drinking, Why would they walk through the doors in the first place.

We have All tried it on Our own, I believe we All walk in with the first 2, maybe 2 1/2 Steps, we just don't realize it Our Selves. So Self Diagnosis might not be the correct way. I have heard many times "Bring the Body, the Mind will follow."

But taking Other's inventories, is just as Dangerous. Is it not Someone's decision, Higher Up than Ours?

I heard a Quote on this Forum today from one of my Favourite Personal Stories in the Big Book. And I thank Beginagain7 for sharing it.
And acceptance is the answer to all my problems today. When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person, place, thing, or situation---some fact of my life ----unacceptable to me, and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing, or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment. Nothing, absolutely nothing, happens in God's world by mistake. Until I could accept my alcoholism, I could not stay sober; unless I accept life completely on life's terms. I cannot be happy. I need to concentrate not so much on what needs to be changed in the world as on what needs to be changed in me and in my attitudes.

Alcoholics Anonymous, 4th Edition, Acceptance Was The Answer, pg. 417


The title of that story was quite different in the 3rd Edition, but some felt that it had to be changed, mostly due to this Tradition. The Title may have changed, but the Message is the same. Exclusivity, is also a Dangerous thing.

It is not about the Alcohol, never really was. It was about the ISM. The "WHY" I drank.

So I try to K.I.S.S. maybe I may learn something.
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