The Steps Aren't Necessary

The 12 Steps are the AA program of recovery from alcoholism.
becksdad
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Re: The Steps Aren't Necessary

Post by becksdad »

Wow! I figure the title to this thread would attract almost anybody! Seeing that statement..... I just HAD to read it!

I'm probably not going to add much to the extensive discussion, but I just wanted to share what I can see as a historical attraction to the title alone:

Before sobriety (and I've been in & out of the rooms a time or twenty before actual sobriety) - I gotta read this! Now I can learn how to stay sober without having to do all that stuff! Yeah!

In Sobriety (and almost militant about it) - I gotta read this! What kind of crap is this?! This crap has to be straightened out! Yeah!

Today in sobriety - I gotta read this! I can't wait to see the comments from folks here about that statement! This might even be entertaining! Yeah!

Y'all didn't disappoint !!!!

Ed

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avaneesh912
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Re: The Steps Aren't Necessary

Post by avaneesh912 »

Thanks Ed. There is a document floating around on the web about Hard Drunks and am sure if you search this forum or the web you will find it. That article explains what is going on in the fellowship today. What we have done is in the name of helping the potential alcoholics we have dug the grave for the real alcoholics. This sure will receive lot of negative reception but that is the fact.
Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism.(Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

kenyal
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Re: The Steps Aren't Necessary

Post by kenyal »

I've seen some of this kind of thing on occasion, and have seen occasionally what can happen down the road for these people.

No thanks.

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Tommy-S
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Re: The Steps Aren't Necessary

Post by Tommy-S »

Who cares? :P

The majority of AA's I know find working the Steps to be essential to not drinking and being happy (sober)

But to practice a little perspective, I know only maybe a couple hundred AA... some thing like 100th of one percent of our estimated membership. I mean, it encompasses all of my 'world view' of AA, but reality is it's a very small fraction, and certainly not enough for me to comment on the Whole of Alcoholics Anonymous.

The tragedy is whatever help these few exceptions may have to offer the new person find a way out of that living hell is lost without their regular presence... Poignantly ungrateful, IMO, for if the AA's who had helped them get started in sobriety had only showed up once a year, they might never have gotten their start themselves.

A good reminder to Pay it Back by Passing it On to the next person.

Thanks... Tommy
Together, we don't have to cave in or wimp out to that Fatal First One, no matter what today!

jimbo d
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Re: The Steps Aren't Necessary

Post by jimbo d »

Someone said something about letting the people who state that 12 steps are not necassary to just let them have thier message...they sited tradition 3 as a justification for this.

This is where I staunchly disagree. Page 17 in the BB tells me there are 2 powers in the program. one fellowship and the other the actual program of the 12 steps. Both are needed. And when people spread a message is that is not AA information. I state when it's my turn to share. That is "thier" information and not AA's information. I sit in meetings which are not the program, they are the fellowship. If there are 8 people at the table, I at times will hear 8 different solutions. There is a chapter in the Big Book called "there is A solution" as in one. And when people start adding and subtracting to the solution, generally because they like convience. I point it out. And yes, I have received back on this. But it is imperative to my soberity that I spread the message of AA and not the message of Jimbo d, Which I am very capable of. I have an ego, I also have laziness. One part of me wants the world to believe that I have everything figured out. And the other, Wants me to believe that I am some how special and can take short cuts. And knowing this, I know other Alkies suffer from the same defect. And when I let it my ego and laziness run the show. I have people around me, who tell me to shut my hole. And I love them for it. So, at times, in order to "Carry" the message....It takes having some intenstinal fortitude and telling Joe AA that he is full of it, when spreads his own handy work at a table.

JohnElkRiver
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Re: The Steps Aren't Necessary

Post by JohnElkRiver »

This was probably stated somewhere in the other 5 pages of replies. It sounds like this might be a person of the hard drinking type. Not one of the "real alcoholics". Everyone with a desire to stop drinking may join our fellowship so it shouldn't be surprising that we'd have some who are not indeed alcoholic. Staying sober without working the steps over many years would probably be a good indication of this. I'm not sure why such a person would even keep coming back but each to their own I guess.

becksdad
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Re: The Steps Aren't Necessary

Post by becksdad »

Hey John, welcome to the site! I am an alcoholic named Ed. Stick around and share with us! There's great stuff here.... lots of recovery. Join us....

Peace, Ed

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Re: The Steps Aren't Necessary

Post by clduffy »

I would feel lost without some steps to be honest. I know I am new and can't add much value but I'm reading the book and will be getting a sponsor soon. I like the idea of steps, I need them. So I feel grateful honestly.

musclekars
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Re: The Steps Aren't Necessary

Post by musclekars »

I think that for newcomers hearing him it should be pointed out that while "his" program works for him, he is certainly in the minority.

Rodney

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Tosh
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Re: The Steps Aren't Necessary

Post by Tosh »

clduffy wrote:I would feel lost without some steps to be honest. I know I am new and can't add much value but I'm reading the book and will be getting a sponsor soon. I like the idea of steps, I need them. So I feel grateful honestly.
I think some of us do realise early on that we need something with some real depth and weight. When drinking is so ingrained into the fabric of our being, I kinda knew at a gut level that I would have to do something pretty radical if I wanted to live sober and happy. I didn't feel I had much choice in the end; though I was slow off the mark. It took me about a year to knuckle down after I hit a sober rock bottom. That's when I 'dropped the nickel' and phoned a Big Book guy up and asked him to sponsor me.

That was one of my smarter moves.
Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.” Rumi (No sniggering from the sex addicts)

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Ida
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Re: The Steps Aren't Necessary

Post by Ida »

I've heard a lot of people convey much more harmful messages than that to newcomers. Here's my thought on the matter: if someone says something in a meeting that pisses me off, it is simply a nice opportunity to explore why that comment pissed me off so much in the first place. Even if that person is a destructive factor in a meeting, I can still learn and grow from it. I think one of the cool things about AA is that the book is suggestive only, and I think half of why the program works well for many alcoholics is because there are no cut and dry ways to make the program work. I would also say that is someone is not drinking after being unable to stop on their own, and they are happy, then whatever program they are working is working for them, even if it isn't done the exact way it is suggested in the big book. I say take it with a grain of salt, and if this dude confused any newcomers away with his comments, then they weren't ready to quit drinking yet.

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Old Rocker
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Re: The Steps Aren't Necessary

Post by Old Rocker »

Not everyone at a meeting is a real alcoholic.

Hopefully newcomers will be attracted to real recovery by their higher power.

If you want a person to see the truth, be that truth.
Accepted the ABC's 01/04/95.
(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.
(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.
(c) That God could and would if He were sought.

peace
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Re: The Steps Aren't Necessary

Post by peace »

The first A.A. meeting I went to 10 years ago - their was a guy who was chairing and announced himself as a "temporary sponsor". I needed help and I went to talk to him and he told me "Well it's not really about the steps, it's more about the fellowship". I went back a few more times and it seemed more like a social club. One angry guy was sharing one day and I remember it was new years day and the meeting was packed and my mental obsession was in full effect and this dude said something like "I'd throw a 100 drunks under the bus if it affected my own sobriety". I kind of understand what he meant by saying that now, but at that time my alcoholic mind told me that I'm better off drinking then having what these freaks have lol. Now I'm back again 10 yrs later - but in a different group with a lot of good people who actually seem happy and free and want to help.

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Re: The Steps Aren't Necessary

Post by chefchip »

Interesting thread that you found and reactivated. I was glad to read that most of the shares included a "love and tolerance" message in addition to a good description of the differences between sobriety and recovery. Just as you noted in yours. Thanks for bring this one back. I enjoyed reading it and learned a few things.
The only constant in life is change.

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avaneesh912
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Re: The Steps Aren't Necessary

Post by avaneesh912 »

There are some interesting articles on the Primary Purpose Dallas group web-site. Couple of them under the title "Beware: Hard Drinkers & Fakers Inside!" and another under the title "Knock, Knock!" gives a nice picture of current fellowship. One can arrive at a fair conclusion why this sort of practices are going on. Perhaps the person who mis-guided Peace 10 years ago is one of the person whom the big book describes as a Hard drunk, who just needed a little bit of education could have modrated or quit on his own, yet he his wasting his precious time in the fellowship for ages killing many real-alcoholics.
Show him the mental twist which leads to the first drink of a spree. We suggest you do this as we have done it in the chapter on alcoholism.(Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)

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