I don't believe in any gods or higher powers, what do i do?

The 12 Steps are the AA program of recovery from alcoholism.

Postby avaneesh912 » Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:39 am

I found this one of the articles on Anthony De Mellos web-site:

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So there it is: People don't really want to grow up, people don't really want to change, people don't really want to be happy. As someone so wisely said to me, "Don't try to make them happy, you'll only get in trouble. Don't try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it irritates the pig."

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In AA I have learned you cannot force anyone into doing anything. We simply share our experience, strength and hope. If the prospect likes what we have, HE gets to decide whether to follow our path or remain powerless.
Show him, from your own experience, how the peculiar mental condition surrounding that first drink prevents normal functioning of the will power (Alcoholics Anonymous, Page 92)
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Postby martin08 » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:33 am

GantR wrote:
If God as you understand him is “All Good’ then He would want to get rid of the illness of alcoholism.

If God as you understand him is “All Knowing" He would know that He should stop this evil.

If God as you understand him is “All Powerful” He is capable of eliminating alcoholism,

Then why in the hell does he continue to allow alcoholism to exist?





My God is all that, and more - including allowing alcoholism to exist. I have no capacity to understand Him, my brain is too small. But what I have been given is the capacity to accept Him, and as long as I stay willing, He will give me what I need to be useful in helping all of His children.

I hope I have been helpful, GantR, in clarifying my role as a member of AA, my duty as recovered alcoholic, and my dependence upon a Power that heals. And you have been helpful to me, by showing that resistance to the principles by which AA was founded is not a guarantee that one will drink again, but a rare example as an exception to the general statistics which keeps my mind open and ready to expect the unexpected.

Good luck and fare well.

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Postby Jim 725 » Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:50 am

Now I know why GantR sounds so familiar--his story's in the Big Book:
Now and then a serious drinker, being dry at the moment says, "I don't miss it at all. Feel better. Work better. Having a better time." As ex-problem drinkers, we smile at such a sally. We know our friend is like a boy whistling in the dark to keep up his spirits. He fools himself. Inwardly he would give anything to take half a dozen drinks and get away with them. He will presently try the old game again, for he isn't happy about his sobriety. He cannot picture life without alcohol. Some day he will be unable to imagine life either with alcohol or without it. Then he will know loneliness such as few do. He will be at the jumping-off place. He will wish for the end.

I have also been sober for over 38 years and I don’t credit one day of it to a power greater than myself.
I will say this much. In 1962 I was seriously addicted to alcohol and I went to AA.
I stayed sober and because they did not make me a birthday cake after I had been sober a year I went out and got drunk.
I lost my job and nearly lost my wife and 2 children. I stayed drunk off and on for the nest 8 years.
I found a job in Michigan and moved my family there. On Feb 22, 1970 I went to my first AA meeting in Michigan. On that day I made a decision that I will never drink again, I will never change my mind.

Let's do the math. Went to AA in 1962 and stayed sober a year (1963)
Went out and got drunks, stayed drunk of and on for eight years. (1971)
Has been sober over 38 years? Maybe, if this were 2009.
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Postby Blue Moon » Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:28 am

GantR wrote:Once the alcoholic is convinced he is powerless he is hooked for life by the Big Bill.


True.... for as long as he takes no other action.

However, once he finally gets around to working the remaining steps, he is no longer powerless, therefore need not be so hooked.

"We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable".

It's AA meetings, not its literature, that proclaim stuff like "we are powerless", "we never recover", etc.

So the problem lies not in the program, but in all those meetings where newcomers who've not taken the Steps are trying to lead meetings containing other newcomers who've not taken the Steps.

The blind leading the blind.

Having both taken the "admitted I was powerless" position and subsequently taken the other steps, albeit imperfectly, I am no longer powerless over alcohol - my life is no longer unmanageable.

And so long as I continue taking a few actions on a daily basis in everyday life, I have no reason to believe this is likely to change.

Does that mean I can drink? No, I've no reason to believe my body can withstand the effects of alcohol any more today than it could the day I walked in dying from the effects of chronic alcohol abuse.

What it means is that I no longer have any need nor even desire to drink. I have other goals instead, such as reaching a 10-year sobriety milestone. When I approach that goal, I'll set myself another goal to look foward to - just like I set a 24-hour goal, a 1-month goal, a 1-year goal, a 12-step goal real early on.

And I also have no need nor desire to attend a multitude of meetings a week as a poor substitute. If anything, I believe doing that would make me more miserable because there are relatively few meetings which seem to talk recovery.
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I too do not believe in "God"

Postby Sandi2 » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:38 am

I know that's not a good thing and I am SO tired of people telling me that I need to pray to him. Well instead my 'higher power' is my deceseased gram who saved me (I was abused severely as a child by my step father) and to this day I 'talk' to her when I feel troubled, she provides me a safe place to put my mind if that makes sense?

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Postby jak » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:04 am

to this day I 'talk' to her when I feel troubled, she provides me a safe place to put my mind if that makes sense?

If the man be agnostic or atheist, make it emphatic that he does not have to agree with your conception of God. He can choose any conception he likes, provided it makes sense to him. The main thing is that he be willing to believe in a Power greater than himself and that he live by spiritual principles.
Page 93 Alcoholics Anonymous

Does it make sense to you is the main question. If you know that that has worked for you, then use it.
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Postby Jim 725 » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:22 am

I know that's not a good thing and I am SO tired of people telling me that I need to pray to him.

Have you ever stopped to think that many people refer to "God," and "Him" because they don't know who or what "He" truly is? "God is simply a three letter word used worldwide to denote a spiritual being and "He" or 'Him" are used because of long custom. How can you assign a gender to a spirit?
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Good point Jim

Postby Sandi2 » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:48 am

personally IF there is a God it would be woman because only she could accomplish what a 'he' could do in 6 days (just kidding).

I believe in my gram's spiritual being more than anything.

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Re: Good point Jim

Postby Norwejn » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:09 pm

Sandi2 wrote:personally IF there is a God it would be woman because only she could accomplish what a 'he' could do in 6 days (just kidding).

I believe in my gram's spiritual being more than anything.

Sandi

Hey Sandi, I been thinkin alot about this thread...

I was agnostic.
CRUCIAL to recovery is a spiritual awakening as a result of seeking and fulfilling God's will.

I had NO IDEA how to pray.
I started with reading the 3rd step prayer every day.

When I got to step 7, I read the 7th step prayer every day...

here's the kicker-

I took the direction, worked the steps and now I do the 11th step prayer

These actions led me to God. God now runs my life and I cannot imagine how this happiness and peace has eluded me for sooooo long.
When we drew near to Him he disclosed Himself to us!
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Postby Canbe » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:58 am

It is not by accident that there is a whole chapter titled “ WE Agnostics”
That chapter comes way before the steps and working to being another alcoholic to A.A.
If one is having a hard time finding God know he’s not lost, but maybe someone else will want to try to sponsor them until they understand the chapter “we agnostics”

Whenever one say don’t do it alone you can count on them not understanding What step two is about.
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its' a shame

Postby TheFreeMe » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:51 pm

It is a shame that GantR deleted his posts.

Despite the fact that he may have an unpopular opinion, some may find it very helpful. Some of you deride him and say he needs to be looking for "real" solution. You have a concept only of what the real solution for YOU is.

I applaud those who question. I applaud those who tell their story even if it is unconventional by AA "standards". There are as many ways to get sober as there are sober people, I truly believe that.

GantR did not seem to me in the bits of quoted post I could find, to be attempting to inflict his beliefs or experiences on others, he merely seemed to be sharing his. Then, when that was attacked, he engaged in warfare... as many humans would.

Anyone who attempts to discount the story of another sober person, even if it differs from their own, a conventional story, or even (GASP!) goes outside the lines of the BB, should be ashamed of themselves, IMHO.

The OP asked a specific question to which there are MANY MANY answers. I appreciate all of you who tried to help. I don't appreciate it when a person shares their experience and then gets lambasted for it.

Count me out of your horrific forums, if this is how it is here. More sheeple? Please, I can find a huge clutch of them at any meeting of AA.
"We have seen the enemy, and he is us."
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Re: its' a shame

Postby Blue Moon » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:25 pm

TheFreeMe wrote:It is a shame that GantR deleted his posts.


Yes. But as he did, we're in a poor position to comment because we can only critique one side of the story.

There are as many ways to get sober as there are sober people, I truly believe that.


Really? If so, there's no point having a recovery book.

Count me out of your horrific forums, if this is how it is here. More sheeple?


Ok. Bye.
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Re: its' a shame

Postby TheFreeMe » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:23 pm

Blue Moon wrote:
TheFreeMe wrote:It is a shame that GantR deleted his posts.


Yes. But as he did, we're in a poor position to comment because we can only critique one side of the story.

There are as many ways to get sober as there are sober people, I truly believe that.


Really? If so, there's no point having a recovery book.

Count me out of your horrific forums, if this is how it is here. More sheeple?


Ok. Bye.


Obviously you (offhandedly and simply) assume I have nothing of value to offer as well.

The Book is a guidebook to sobriety, not a bible, as many treat it. Even the writer admits he realizes we know only a little, and that every AA will have their OWN, unique experience and every last one of them is valuable.
"We have seen the enemy, and he is us."
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Postby tasman » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:56 pm

Hi TheFreeMe

Why not start a new topic? I think trying to read between the lines of a half deleted topic is a hard way to get a grasp of what's going on here.

What would you like to say?

Kerie :D
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Postby TheFreeMe » Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:43 pm

tasman wrote:Hi TheFreeMe

Why not start a new topic? I think trying to read between the lines of a half deleted topic is a hard way to get a grasp of what's going on here.

What would you like to say?

Kerie :D


That's a fantastic idea, Kerie... thank you for asking. I will do just that.
"We have seen the enemy, and he is us."
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